Completely despicable.
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the head by a gunman at a public event on Saturday. There are conflicting reports about whether she was killed.
The Pima County, Ariz., sheriff’s office told member station KJZZ the 40-year-old Democrat was killed. At least nine other people, including members of her staff, were injured.
Giffords, who was re-elected to her third term in November, was hosting a “Congress on Your Corner” event at a Safeway in northwest Tucson when a gunman ran up and started shooting, according to Peter Michaels, news director of Arizona Public Media.
And when the finger pointing starts about what creates an environment that allows folks to do such terrible things-the rhetoric is going to get really ugly.
UPDATE: The shooter has been identified and the search of his My Space comments has begun.
Skippy,
Just like I argued with my wife recently. If you traditionally look at most of the political violence in the history of the United States, it has come from mentally unbalanced folks and/or who follow an extreme left leaning political agenda.
For example:
Abe Lincoln was killed by J.W. Booth, a man who who believed that Lincoln was the devil incarnate. Booth laid the blame of the ideals of the CSA on Lincoln and that by killing him (and other major portions of his executive department) the war would continue.
Garfield and McKinely were both shot by anarchists. Garfield’s anarchist was strong follower of his own political party until he felt as if the party left him and saw anarchy as the only way to get his on views represented. MicKinely’s killer was an immigrant who was a loner, bum, and unemployable who fell under the sway of the turn of 20th century anarchists
An anarchists tried to killed Teddy Roosevelt.
An Italian immigrant who might have wanted to prove something to the Chicago mob tried to kill the Chicago Mayor and Franklin Roosevelt, but failed
Sam Byck a nut job who was severely depressed tried to hijack an airliner and crash it into the White House in 1974.
Both of Gerald Ford’s attempted killers were followers of nut jobs. Squeaky Fromme was a follower of Mason and Sara Moore believed in Patty Hearst and the SLA.
Hinkely believed that by killing Regan Jodie Foster would fall in love with him and marry him.
Move forward to the last 12 yrs, in Seattle the WTO riots turned violent cause of anarchists.
Some of the more violence during the last four years of President G.W. Bush committed at various rallies seem to come from groups like Code Pink, ANSWER, and other extreme left organizations.
If you want to look at even the supposed right winger of Tim McVeigh, he was more a loner nut job that was a follower of the KKK and Neo-Nazi organizations (which are socialists groups if you examine them close enough) and angry about the government.
Both sides in the last 12 yrs are guilty of retorhic with regards to killing government officals. Most of those calling for that are the at the fringes, so the question is how many people actually listened to those fringes?
The big difference though is that, unlike previous times, the wackos have a mainstream outlet enabling them- Fox News and talk radio. The other side has its networks-but they do not have the same numbers nor the unblinking acceptance of what is put out, that Fox News does. Only through allowing folks like Glenn Beck and others to become mainstream do you have the kind of thing that permeates into the national consciousness-instead of remaining on the fringes where it belongs.
There is no left wing equivelant of Glenn Beck. ( And don’t even try to suggest Olbermann is-he’s a piker compared to Beck).
I’d also submit that your assertion that most politcal violence comes from the left is weak, especially because beyond 1960, those terms left and right do not have the same meaning as they do now.
That said-I still believe the tea party has some questions to answer. Its one thing to assert that a governmental policy is wrong, its quite another to assert that the government is fundamentally evil. They have done the latter and their more extreme members have already killed ( in 2009) and regrettably, will kill again.
SAP: Of course these things are being done by nutjobs, but the right (and the right’s “establishment” sources like Fox News) DOES bear responsibility for creating an environment where nutjobs feel they must/can act. That map with the names and cross-hairs on it speaks for itself (thanks, Sarah), but that isn’t the first time. What about the nut who shot up the Unitarian church in Knoxville, and whose reading list included Hannity, Savage, and O’Reilly? What about Eric Rudolph?
Now, let’s look on the other hand for an incident some time less than 30 years ago where a deranged leftist did something like this. Can you name ONE? The nuts you mention (Hinckley, Sara Jane Moore, and Squeaky) were all pretty much apolitical.
The “both sides do it” argument just doesn’t wash here.
The incident itself is just sickening. The congresswoman may survive, but the fatalities included a federal judge and a 9 year old girl.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/us-politics/8248399/Gabrielle-Giffords-father-The-whole-Tea-Party-were-her-enemies.html
Which tea party member has killed anyone?
You see cause and effect..I say. lets wait and see..
I understand the pathological need to blame the Tea Party or Beck for such a horrific act but maybe, I’m just musing here, lets find out more about this young man before drawing any conclusions…hell, maybe he was a commie uh, progressive…
By the way, the rhetoric today is nothing compared to the 60’s..and anyone who lived thru those times can attest to that….
Skippy,
I wouldn’t even begin to suggest that Olbermann is like Glenn Beck. Glenn Beck is one of those idiots who some how got a show first on CNN, then migrated over to Fox. As to a left wing eqivelant, I know up where I am at in the Seattle area until Air America went away, they had Mike Malloy and Randi Rhodes on one of the AM stations here. Those two almost sounds like Glenn Beck, though at the few times I would tune them in coming home from the stay-check, they both said some even more outlandish things then Beck. If I remember right Malloy came underfire for calling for the murder of the members of the Bush family, Rush Limbaugh, and a few others. I really think there are plenty of bomb throwers on both sides that are gaining ground into the main stream.
I just feel that throwing blame and pointing fingers and screaming “The other side did it! See they need to be arrested the lot of them!” is about as helpful right now as serving the hungry a soup sandwich.
Whether or not Palin was right in her verbage calling for throwing the Democrats out on the street. That is something we could argue until the Sake bottle is empty and the Geisha girls have done thier umpteenth version of some traditional Japanese Music while in your favorite entertainment house in Tokyo. Simply cause I have seen just as many on the other side with the same sort of verbs.
I would also bow to your age in that the roles and titles of left/right have shifted. All I know is what I have studied and been educated in my 32yrs alive that if one has an “R” besides thier name is typically a conseravite and on the right side of the aisle. Most of those want to believe in smaller government, more personal responsibility, and in general a belief that one serves government and not government serving them. While those with a “D” by thier name are typically on the left side of the aisle and belief that government is here to protect you and serve you. That everything could be solved by the government being involved in ways into your life. As to some of the more fringes as they are identified by the Mainstream Media aren’t in my honest op-ed accurately identified for thier political leanings.
JRandom,
Why doesn’t the idea that “both sides does it” wash? I am just trying to point out as I did a second ago with Skippy, that calling for a roundup and throwing absoulte blame on either side of the aisle cause some incident has occurred isn’t right. It is even harder when we you have only the mis-reporting, trolls (as it appears either a Myspace or Facecrack page has been done), or in general bad data gets out cause some one wants to get a scoop and talks to some peon from sector 7-G.
I don’t know completely what the Tea Party is nor what they are about. Simply cause I haven’t been home when they formed. I don’t even care that much. I also wonder how much the right wing media really has to blame for all of the violence that is occuring when, again if you look at some of these nutjobs out there that are committing some of the violence out there aren’t completely Republican nor are they completely Democrat.
I would also suggest that because someone using violent and forceful langauge in thier speeches, doesn’t not mean they should be condemned. If that was so, then one should round up every last modern rap artist, video game designer, or even book writer that uses violence in thier art. Cause otherwise we just might start to throw out that pesky little amendment called the 1st and start to limit people’s speech. Again others in the political world have used violent sounding langauge during their ralies, even President Obama had used a variation of that line from “The Untouchables” about bringing a gun to a knife fight. I don’t know if he every backed down or off from that line or was even held to the fire like people have been holding Palin, Limbaugh, Hannity, or some of the other bomb throwers on the right for some of their language.
Regarding the 1st amendment, as Justice Holmes said, it doesn’t protect “falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic”. The stuff that Beck & Co. finds a resonance in certain unbalanced individuals and they tend to act. The legal term for this is “incitement”.
Reckless speech can incite violence with dangerous results. When media figures, “news” networks, and politicians feed paranoia and resentment to this point they are playing with fire.
JRandom,
Isn’t it moving that when the Congress gathered together to read the Constitution last week it was Congresswoman Giffords who read aloud the First Amendment in the House.
Several who comment have been ruthless in their utter condemnation of the fair Sarah Palin. Don’t tell me you don’t see anything like ugly coming from the left or the media. I defy you to find anything like that vitriolic hatred coming from any Tea Party.
I never said arrest them-or any such thing. I just pointed out that our political discourse, as I pointed out a couple of weeks ago has created an atmosphere where lunatics are free to roam.
Richard-does the name Rich Poplawski ring a bell? He killed three cops in Pittsburgh, almost in direct response to something said on a Glenn Beck show.
And Curtis as for vile things said from the Tea Party-the list is long and undistinguished. I can go to the Free Republic or the NRO or The American Thinker and find things that are truly vile-and worse untrue every day. Tea Party demagogues scream at people that their government is illegitimate, that their country has been “taken away,” that their elected officials are “traitors” and that their freedom is at risk. They have a right to free speech. Butt they shouldn’t be surprised if some listeners take them literally.
There is no reason and no excuse for blockading the free speech of the Tea parties-but they would all do themselves a great favor and us, by stopping the idea that the end of human civilization is upon us just because a Democrat is elected President. Or that, by trying to improve our own society-ahead of some other nations- it is a some sort of Communist Conspiracy.
JRandom,
You’re right that Justice Holmes and a slew of others in SCOTUS have found ways to limit how and where speech is protected. However, as I have noticed in many a year when someone comes out with vile and hate filled speech or speech that is questionable in the eye of society. There are those willing to defend that speech.
I for a person believe that no matter how vile some groups like the Klan, Neo-nazis, Westbro Baptish Church, John Birchers, etc; are they should be given a chance to have thier voice in the public. Let the public view in the daylight what these people really are. Use it when they arrive a public forum as a teachable moment to your children. Don’t shout them down, cause that only increases thier voice in some people. Rather debate them with a clear and logically manner, show the fallacies in thier arguements.
If we shut those sorts of people down, by restricting thier speech. Push them into a hole or a darken corner of your local pub or community center. Then that only unintentionally increases thier voice not only with those that live on the fringe of society, but also those that are a little more main stream.
I would also suggest that it might be a slippery slope that if we start to restrict one side’s freedom to throw their verbal bombs or mud, then how soon until we start to mirror a place like Communist China, or Theocratic Iran, or even old school USSR? Where the only offical voice is that of the government?
One of the things that I have debated with various friends and a couple of times with Skippy here is the question of civility about our positions. I mean if we can’t sit across each other at a table in the beer garden with a cold one in our hands. Having a lively and good debate about the merits of a sign with no words. Before finally coming to the agreement that both of us are wrong, but the beer is cold is the only thing we can agree to. That is what is lacking right now in American Politics. It has probably been lacking for at least the last 40 yrs in my honest op-ed. Soon the pendulm of history will start to swing back again towards some of that civility and those extremists out there on both sides of the aisles will be locked back up again in thier respective closets.
SAP,
I blame a big part of that on the Internet. Because in Cyber space people are one dimensional-whereas in the beer garden, someone can have weird political ideas but still be semi-normal. ( Plus in the beer garden, both people can like the serving wench’s big titties.)
Skippy,
That is very much the truth. The internet seems to be where tin foil brigades have been out in force on both sides of the aisle. I for one get a kick out of sticking my head down some of those rabbit holes from time to time just to see the weirdness. Sort of like the modern day sideshow.
I would also say that the debate in the beer gardens are always better cause if all else fails you can try and determine if said wench has big tittes or just padded, all while your friend goes on about whether we should be on gold, silver, or bottles of sake as our currency standard.
speaking of beer gardens….
the LA times in their op ed page had it right. When something like this happens the folks from the fringes come out in droves. and the internet makes the process, obviously, much faster.
But these sorts of folks have ALWAYS been around.
What is the solution?
I am guessing this is going to be a person like the Columbine or Virginia Tech shooter, a highly disturbed person with NO political agenda.
But, that just conjecture.
By the way, in the long history of our Constitutional Republic actual acts of political violence, murder and assault, are quite rare.
But they are getting less rare-and that can be traced to two things: 1) The rise of the idiots in the GOP and 2) our obsession with guns as a country.
Skippy,
The videocam is ubiquitous these days. Round up the top 10 vitriolic hate filled speeches of people addressing actual Tea Party events and trot them out for all to see. You cannot attribute the ravings of lunatics who never leave their mother’s basements to the Tea Party just because they post online under their fake names.
When I speak of derangement and bias I speak of the main stream media. Guys like Krugman and Dan Rather.
If you think Krugman and Rather are deranged-you need to take more medication.
Whatever happened to Fake But Accurate Rather who tossed a 30 year career in the toilet in his mindless vendetta against Bush? And seriously, nobody outside the I-95 corridor takes Krugman seriously. Guy lost touch with reality decades ago.
Yea that Nobel prize means nothing-eh? Krugman is a smart guy , and about the country’s descent into economic buffoonery, he is 100% on the money. I submit it is not Krugman that lost touch with reality-but people out there in land of Galt.
Skippy,
You make this complaint about those on the right, but looking at a recent story the left-leaning blog Daily Kos was swift to scrub its post from a Tucson writer explaining how the congresswoman was now “dead to me.”
One of the blog’s diary writers, identifying himself as BoyBlue, had written a post only two days before the shooting titled “My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!”
To add more, Marko Moulitsas (founder of Daily Kos), had also posted what he called a “target list” (the same type that they say Palin had made and caught all of the bad press from) identifying Giffords. In a 2008 Daily Kos post, Moulitsas listed Giffords as one of dozens of representatives with “a bull’s-eye on their district” for being a “bad apple” Democrat.
So tell me which group is it that keeps hyping about doing bad things to the other group?
I believe that there should be debate among the political parties, that way people can get more than one side of the issues. But I don’t think that you should use violence to get your point across.
Skippy,
I don’t like to pile on but steppping back through the wayback machine with Mr. Peabody and Sherman brought up this one from Krugman:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/18/opinion/18krugman.html?_r=2&ref=opinion
Where in the opening sentance he calls for hanging of Senator Liberman, even if it is in effigy; seems to be in poor taste.
I am a complete believer again that for every finger you point out there are four pointing back. So again both sides are guilty of the violence in their speech. Just be willing to defend both sides of it or be willing to accept that both sides may have blood on thier hands.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/01/the-cloudy-logic-of-political-shootings/69147/
James Fallows, a fav of the author of this blog*(thats You Skippy) seems to agree with *me* which just makes me all fuzzy and warm inside…
But we know that it has been a time of extreme, implicitly violent political rhetoric and imagery, including SarahPac’s famous bulls-eye map of 20 Congressional targets to be removed — including Rep. Giffords. It is legitimate to discuss whether there is a connection between that tone and actual outbursts of violence, whatever the motivations of this killer turn out to be. At a minimum, it will be harder for anyone to talk — on rallies, on cable TV, in ads — about “eliminating” opponents, or to bring rifles to political meetings, or to say “don’t retreat, reload.”
That sums it up nicely-and yes I like James Fallows. In case you did not know it-he had a real good friend killed senselessly last week.
Politico also has a nice article up about how Palin needs to stand up and take some blame for the inherent meaness of our politics. ” She needs to choose now-whether to be Ronald Reagan or Rush Limbaugh.”
I have no doubt which one-and it won’t be Reagan. She doesn’t have the wherewith all.
Ah, Mr Wheeler..quite a mystery..on the video of him at the hotel he seemed disoriented..and seems to have been killed someplace else….
http://www.salon.com/news/gabrielle_giffords/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2011/01/09/loughner_not_though
Skippy,
Did James Fallows cover this:
“They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
“Get in Their Faces!”
“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
“Hit Back Twice As Hard”
Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
“It’s time to fight for it.”
“Punish your enemies.”
“I’m itching for a fight.”
this from Senator Obama during the last campaign.
OK, let’s compare some of Maurice’s list to the following:
“Don’t retreat, reload”
The infamous rifle-crosshair map
“Second Amendment Remedies”
“The Tree of Liberty needs to be refreshed” [with the blood of tyrants]
The “Liberal Hunting Permit” – just do a Google image search
If you can say that these are equivalent with a straight face, I’ll buy the next round at the beer garden.
Skippy, you mean it’s every bit as meaningful and deserved as Obama’s Nobel Peace Prize? So yeah, got your point.
Palin is a political SuperGenius!!!! Best candidate the nation could have for President in 2012!!! Smart, talented, beautiful and could easily end Global Warming on her first day in office.
JRandom,
I believe I posted earlier that the Daily Kos also had a crosshair on Gifford’s district.
So yes, I can say that the left has made comments, and so has the right. But, unlike most of the pundits in the media today, they will not say that their side has made such comments.
What is not being said about this loser who did this crime is how he used marijuana (remember, it is just a harmless drug); he was a devout devil worshiper (there were some reports on his skull shrint); he held Mein Kampf in higg regards (I believe Gifford’s is Jewish); and funny how the media asked us not to be quick to rush and blame muslims for the Ft Hood massacare just because the shooter was named Hassan, but are quick to blame the entire right wing as the root cause of this tragedy.