Far East Cynic

Not getting the main point…….

About the Civil War.

Lex has a post up on the Civil War.  It would seem Frank Rich’s column was unappreciated by him-as if anything Mr Rich wrote would be.

Now Lex does have a couple of valid points: 1) Racisim was not exclusively a Southern phenomenon and the North had more than its fair share of things to be ashamed of  in the area of Civil rights.

And 2)-the South, even though it was on the losing side, does have a right to know its history and to remember its war dead.  To do otherwise is simply wrong-and it also does not provide a clear accounting of how this nation came to be. That’s why the idea of a Confederate History Month does not bother me overly much.  Why not? After all we spend the entire month before hand celebrating the non-accomplishments of others.  If a state wishes to have one that’s fine-so long as they acknowledge one important caveat.

The CSA was on the losing side of history. Deservedly so. That has to be stated early and often.  Had the Civil War not come along in 1861-slavery would still have had to go away. The industrial progress of the world had sealed the institution’s fate long before 1865. Lex rightfully points out that even by the standards of the mid 1800’s-it was a moral blot on our history.

What the apologists for Gov McDonnell’s incomplete declaration, have completely wrong-and is an idea that needs to be put down once and for all-is this continuing notion that the rebellious states of the South had some sort of lingering lesson for today’s political situation. The Union won for a variety of reasons-but the primary one was that Lincoln’s idea was paramount: The Union of States is indivisible. Period. There is no escape clause, and individual states that seceded were not doing so  “in order to preserve pre-negotiated rights”. The right did not then, and does not now,  exist.  It is clear from the history books that for Lincoln this was his line in the sand-and that he only became convinced of the utter necessity for emancipation later on as the war unfolded. In hindsight though-Lincoln had it right. The Union has to be indivisble-and therefore, if you want to change the government, it has to be done within the bounds laid out via the Constitution.

Which is Rich’s real main point, that conservatives are playing with fire, when they try to rehabilitate the record of the Civil War into some kind of noble struggle for “states rights”.  It may have been perceived as states rights then-but it is morally and economically unsustainable now and deservedly so.  Its like trying to remember the British Empire without remembering the class system and blatant racism it was built upon.  That’s why the idea that “that the Confederate Army had been ‘fighting for the same things that people in the Tea Party are fighting for.’ “-is a reckless one and those who coddle and encourage those with that idea are holding a loaded gun to their own heads. There is no “anti-Southern” bias in the those who write criticism of such talk-they are simply pointing out the that the concept is indefensible. Period.

And as for the idea that people of the South have special traditions of gentility and manners that mystify city dwellers, well spend some time in the state of Alabama for a while. It will cure one of that silly notion. There is nothing mystifying about life here. Which is the whole problem with the place.

UPDATE Balloon Juice has a commenter who sums the issue up nicely:

I haven’t found anyone suggesting that the history of the Confederacy or the South be expunged. Hardly. If anything, most of the ink (real or electronic) spilled on this subject seems to advocate a common goal: Tell the truth about history.

As an analogy, I think it’s fair to say that the Wehrmacht fought very, very well and courageously in WWII, and one of the best fighting units in history may well be the Waffen SS. They fought for what they believed, and it’s fair to say that many in the Wehrmacht fought because, like grunts all through history, someone handed them a weapon and gave them no choice. Having said this, would you advocate that the Germans should have “Third Reich Month” in order to honor the Wehrmacht’s sacrifices? Of course you wouldn’t. The Third Reich was evil, and the fact that many fought for it well and bravely, without being Nazis, doesn’t change that fact.

If what you want is for white Southerners to be allowed to whitewash history and take refuge in some sort of moral “nobility” of the Confederacy, then, yes, that is unlikely to be allowed. The answer is relatively simple: teach white children in your schools that the American Civil War hinged on the issue of slavery, that slavery was evil, that it was wrong to allow it, and even more wrong to take up arms to defend it. Then, you can explain how many men fought bravely and well, even if in the wrong cause.

The Douglas Southall Freemen mythology surrounding that war has long been discredited. It’s time for all Southerners to face the truth. Until we do, we, and the country, cannot move on.

Sound advice for those who try to make the current political situation some sort of noble rebellion. Wrong then-wrong now.

  1. One Robert E. Lee, married as he was to one of George Washington’s descendants, maintained a somewhat different pose on this question. The north, and Lincoln, prevailed but there were one hell of a lot of people that did think that the union was divisible. Remember who was first in Harper’s Ferry?

    Some of the most honorable men this country ever generated and sent to West Point held that State’s rights actually prevailed in a conflict of federalism.

    Have you ever visited Lee’s house? As with our founders, he sacrificed enormously for his beliefs. I usually visit the grounds on each trip home. You won’t find more honorable company.

  2. I got hooked on the civil war while just a young lad, in the days when we put quill to papyrus..Bruce Catton was one of the first books I read and oddly, still holds up well after all these years.
    Perhaps we should take a lesson from Joshua Chamberlain.
    As John B Gordon led his ragged survivors to surrender. dejected and in despair, Chamberlain gave an order, a bugle sounded and the Army of the Potomoc, these men who had fought against each other in many a bloody battle, went from order arms to carry arms, a salute of HONOR.
    Respect from one soldier to another.

  3. No,

    I read your appendix and you seem to want me line up the CSA with the nazis. Not going to happen.

    Let’s go back to Robert E. Lee shall we? He was a Virginian and then he was an American. State first, then country. We walk around that man’s house and grounds all the time. He left a most powerful legacy of what he thought were STATES rights.

    Did you know that KC-135 aircrew were going to pump there all into the B52’s over the pole and then glide in to a landing in the Arctic? Me neither. Talk about a different time. That was in our lifetime. Don’t want or need you to call the south nazis.

  4. hinged on slavery did it? that would explain firing on Fort Sumter? War in the West? Your ‘expert’ is an idiot.

  5. Beliefs are engraved in the minds of men. We are all programmed by that with which we are raised, and it takes a very detached mind to break away. Hence the power of religion, and the power of patriotic beliefs.

    Darwinian evolution at work, enabling a community to bond and it’s members to survive…

  6. Skippy,
    As a decendant of people who were slaves, and also who wer slave owners, I understand that the Civil War was more than about Slavery. It was an issue on State’s rights and other issues. Slavery was a major component but not the root cause. Lincoln himslef thought that if he could preserve the Union, slavery itself as an institution would end by the latter part of the 19th century.

    So, bottom line in my opinion is that if a bunch of guys want to celebrate their ancestors who fought in the Civil War, then I say go ahead. It doesn’t bother me in the least bit. I am not a slave due to the fact that the Civil War ended it (Emancipation Proclimation did not actually free my ancestors, only those in the rebilious states and if the slave owners swore allegiance to the Union they could keep their slaves), and because the Constitution ended the practice. As long as they don’t make plans to repeal that amendment, then I am fine.

    On that note, I regret that Ole Miss got rid of “Colonel Rebel” Mascot. They should have kept it, along with other universities who had to give up their Indian mascots.

  7. The confederates were retreating from the battlefield and a general yelled out to one soldier:
    “Why are you running”?
    Reply:” ’cause I can’t fly , sir”….
    Courtesy of Shelby Foote.

  8. who knew? who could have guessed? her problems are now your problems.

    Welles, 58, has multiple sclerosis. Her premiums are nearly $1,500 a month.

    “That’s a lot of groceries,” she told the New York Times.

    That quite a few groceries less than if she went uninsured. I know this. She knows this. Even the New York Times reporter knows this.

    The system New York uses is over-regulation.

    From the New York Times: “The problem stems in part from the state’s high medical costs and in part from its stringent requirements for insurance companies in the individual and small group market. In 1993, motivated by stories of suffering AIDS patients, the state became one of the first to require insurers to extend individual or small group coverage to anyone with pre-existing illnesses… Healthy people, in effect, began to subsidize people who needed more health care. The healthier customers soon discovered that the high premiums were not worth it and dropped out of the plans.”

    Which is why Obamacare must threaten to fine and to jail the uninsured in order to get dupes to carry the actual price of this unfunded mandate.