I’m going to go on a series of posts disproving some of the wildest distortions that have been beamed into the minds of those who believe that they have some kind of a novel new notion, about government and taxation. The Tea Parties may have started as a grass roots phenomenon, but it would never have been as big a deal as it became with out the aid and active participation of Fox News and Republican talk radio. Furthermore, what is clear as you try to puncture the bubble of what the folks accept as “facts” is that the basic talking points were not created by the protesters themselves. Rather, they are simply recitations of things they heard on Fox News.
That’s fine-everyone is entitled to an opinion. However don’t get angry when someone has the temerity to call their “bedrock truths” into question.
Especially when those “bedrock truths” don’t turn out to be true:
It’s true that projected deficits have gotten larger since January. But much of this resulted from deteriorating economic conditions that would have occurred even if John McCain were president. Moreover, it is absurd to assume that McCain would not have enacted any stimulus programs had he been elected…
I strongly suspect that many of those that loudly denounced the Obama stimulus package for its impact on the deficit would have cheered the McCain stimulus package even though it would have increased the deficit by about the same amount……..
The truth is that the greatest addition to national indebtedness occurred in 2003 when Bush rammed through the Republican Congress a massive expansion of Medicare to provide drug benefits even though the system was already broke….
Same thing goes with the idea that taxes are spiraling out of control. Historical data suggests that proposition may need a little more thought:
Effective Tax rates were higher under Reagan for all income groups than they are now. Higher income groups paid a little more under Clinton-but the side benefit was that the budget came into balance. I think most of the tea party protesters do not realize that-it was not in Glenn Becks talking points. However the information is there for any one who wants to find it.
Another point that was conveniently left out of the “Party like its 1773” rhetoric, was that if the top 1% are paying more taxes, part of it is because that unlike the rest of us whose wages essentially are flat lined, they experienced the greatest growth in after-tax incomes, too.
They might also have neglected to tell you that the US is not the most highly taxed nation in the world-its actually 23rd in that race. (#1 is Belgium).
Next up: The 40% don’t pay taxes myth.
http://www.realclearmarkets.com
Its in the American DNA to oppose taxes. Any taxes.
Why?
Because we have little faith that our government will spend our hard earned money wisely. We all suffer from the ‘Bridge to Nowhere” syndrome.
Drive down the Interstate and on the road repair crews you will see one guy working and 7 guys standing around with their hands up their tush.
So, you are in your car, its hot, you can’t make the mortgage payment, your boss is on your case and you see these yahoo’s doing nothing and you know they are making a lot of money.
We expect them to earn their pay.
Think of a day when everyone ACTUALLY did what they were paid to do?
rant over
Skippy,
I don’t think current tax rates are the big issue, it’s the implication that taxes will have to be raised substantially to pay for the expansive (and expensive) programs that are being discussed. The current administration and Congress can mostly claim that they haven’t raised anyone’s taxes yet (except for taxes on smokers), but to claim that they can fund the spending being proposed without raising taxes in the future is hard to swallow.
Yank
This tax issue is an example of a media-based rumour cascade where the same story heard form multiple sources sounds like it’s actually multiple stories, but they reinforce the earlier times you heard it giving a sense of credibility to blatant nonsense.
Then in steps the herd mentality, the lynch-mob tactics, and action and thought cascade and reinforce again, and before you know it, you’ve stirred up your revolution…
As Jon Stewart said, face it you guys; you lost, you’re in the minority, just suck it up until the next freaking election.
Skippy,
You just don’t get it. Nobody who went to a tea party likes McCain or would have voted for him if offered a choice. The media limited Republicans to the lame ass McCain by stepping out and using every means at their disposal to trash and dispose of his opponents just as they did his VP select who has roughly 2000000 times the executive experience that Obama has. Multiplying his executive experience by any number is impossible (that whole zero thing). What they did is what the RADM promotion board did for a generation and promote the weakest SWO candidates since that way the nukes and airdales could drive right over the lame SWOs for resources. (Yeah, that’s our answer to why SWO Admirals were such dirtbags for a generation.) 🙂
There isn’t a soul who went to a Tea Party who approved of or would have approved of Bush’s stupid drug policy or his stupid African AIDS policy. They went because they’re sick and tired of seeing their money being spent on HAMAS and other fucking losers. What’s wrong with that? You think Palestinians are entitled to my money? Fuck that. Give them all of yours first.
Curtis,
With all due respect, it is you that simply does not get it-nor do the tea party folks.
Your money is being spent on a variety of things. Don’t like it? Vote for better elected officials-one of which happens to be McCain. “True Blue” Republicans may make you feel better, but they won’t win elections for the party.
Bush’s AIDS policy is a shining light in an otherwise dark administration. It is generally recognized that he did more for African AIDS prevention and treatment than his predecessor. As for Hamas-you keep forgetting that they are the elected government of the Palestinian authority. We’ve given foreign aid to both sides: Israel and the PA for a while now. Obama did not start that. Why not protest the Five Billion dollars a year we give to Egypt and Israel?
Even at that our foreign aid expenditures are 1/10th what we spend on the stupid war.
The tea party folks, are working off a set of false premises-that they have been spoon fed by supposedly “fair and balanced: media for about 5 months since the election. ( Like the “40% don’t pay taxes”myth) The underlying facts are more complicated and not black and white. Unless you just want the economy to stay in the toilet for a few years-which no President would have allowed, even Bush.
As for SWO’s? Well I still not a fan of most of the SWO flags they have. The good ones I liked were shown the door a long time ago. I submit to you that SWO culture has more to do with the flags we got than anything else.
The government does a lot of things I wish it wouldn’t, (like go to war in Iraq) but it nonetheless is the legally constituted government.
And as for Palin? She deserves every bit of trashing she gets. She was a fraud and remains a fraud.
regards,
Skippy,
When the main stream media act as unpaid shills for the democratic candidate every single time and do everything they can think of to demonize any right wing candidate it is rather difficult to overcome such an enormous disadvantage and bias while running as a republican. You fail to see any media bias every single time because you agree with that bias. Kind of makes you blind to it. Those of us with a different perspective can see it very clearly. You with your bias fail to see any sign of it. How could that be? How could two different people see things so differently?
You talk about Hamas as the legitimate leadership of a bunch of terrorists and what, you forgot that we have laws in this country forbidding the transfer or raising of funds to and for terrorist organizations? The billions to Egypt and Israel are just as egregious to me but as I understand it they are a result of what that jackass Carter promised if Arafat would agree to the Camp David accords. You know, just another example of a liberal pussy democrat president buying off terrorists.
40% don’t pay income taxes. Prove me wrong.
Sarah Palin vs Obama. Give me just 5 examples where his executive experience and results exceed Palin’s. Try to leave her daughter out of it if you can. You know, stick to the facts: Examples:
Palin is a Governor——Obama was a Senator
Palin is a Governor——Obama was an activist
Palin had jobs———–Obama was an activist
you could also reach out and compare GPAs.
How about that whole transparency thing?
I will prove you wrong about 40% don’t pay taxes. Just stay tuned………………………
As for Palin, there’s plenty to criticize without dragging her daughter into it. Even if Obama is not the right thing for America-neither is Sarah Palin. I would submit to you she is just as inexperienced as Obama is. Read the recent articles about her mis- management of the Trans Canada pipeline to get a flavor of it. ( You know, the one she took credit for-except its not built yet and the Big Three oil companies own the rights to all the oil and gas to). In what may be a sign of hope the Alaska legislature rejected her choice for AG.
Then there are any of the other 19 lies she told on the campaign trail.
I’m not so sure you want to compare GPA’s-considering how long it took Palin to get through college.
Skippy, your graph is a touch off:
http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=19
As you can clearly see, the top tax rate went from 7% to 94% in about 34 years. 1980 the rate was 70% and was cut to 38.5%. The Clinton years, the top rate was 39.5% and under W was cut to 35%.
The 40% figure your about to tell us that don’t pay taxes, those folks are the ones that get a refund. Paying taxes, means at the end of the year, your writting a check to the IRS. So, if quote that everybody pays taxes, you not accurate as 40% of the people out there get some of their money back at the end of the year. (btw, I am one of those 40% folks, so I know where your coming from)
Your using an average of marginal rates, not the specific tax rates for each percentile.
Go back and read the chart-it uses effective tax rates as its benchmark. Effective tax rates includes the effects of payroll, FICA, Medicare, state and local taxes which reduces the 40% rate by a lot.
The rest will be revealed as I break the numbers down-especially when you look at the demographics involved.
Does any of this mean that there is not a need for tax reform? Not at all. However its really not helpful to paint the narrative as deadbeats versus hard workers.
Skippy,
Are you saying that there is no principled, small-government, free-market position or that anyone who holds one deserves to be lumped with the Bush administration? That no one who currently opposes the Obama administration’s policies didn’t oppose Bush’s spending? That there aren’t and haven’t been any reasonable ideas about limiting government and addressing this (and related) economic problems from a libertarian-type position or a secular conservative one?
To understand where I’m going with this, consider the following question. Is the US Navy a feminist organization? Most would say “no”, including many women in the Navy. But, the fact remains that the official policies and direction the Navy has taken towards women in its ranks, the attitudes it must now espouse on those issues, the cost to those who disagree, mirror exactly the desires of feminists and reflect policies that they’ve sought. This would include your highly esteemed Pat Schroeder and her various allies. Now, most people in the Navy didn’t support these policies, most people in the country don’t like feminists (hence the ERA being voted down), most people dislike PC-BS in all of its forms, and so on. And, yet we have a military that now reflects attitudes on gender that Gloria Steinem herself holds. How did this happen? Civilian control explains some, but not all of it. The answer is that the changes were made incrementally and whenever anyone objected, they were told they were being extreme, that it was only pragmatism to support the changes, that basic fairness required them. But, each step taken either created problems that could be solved only by either reversing course or going further in the new direction, or was done in such a way as to seem “successful” and thus served as the justification for more. So, here we are. And now, somone such as yourself who would reverse many of these policies if he could, finds himself with no means to do so, so you write odes to Ms. Schroeder to mark Women’s History Month. The fact that your argument is perfectly reasonable and has evidence behind it doesn’t count because most of the rest of the country refuses to listen or, more fundamentally, most (or too many) men in the country think that basic fairness or justice requires this sort of policy. So, even though no one voted for a feminist military, not many really like it, and most people in it don’t subscribe to feminist ideas or see themselves as such, it doesn’t matter. Most in fact would deny that it is feminist. But, the substance matters, not what one calls it.
Just to continue…I know I’m being a bit long-winded here.
We have something like this with the economy. Back in the Great Depression, we had a crisis that seemed to indict capitalism. There were competing free-market theories that explained the Depression, some like those of the Austrian School of Economics, better than did Keynes or Marx or various people on the left. But, for most of the previous 50 years, thinking in the West had been moving (for various reasons) against capitalism in its purer forms. Faced with an enormous crisis, action had to be taken. Hoover’s actions, actively interventionist, arguably took us from Crash to Depression. FDR, whatever one thinks of his policies, was definitely not a doctrinaire socialist (or doctrinaire anything). It was just a largely pragmatic response, but one that came from a particular political/economic direction. It didn’t really work: WWII ended the Depression. But, it seemed to give people hope, created political constituencies that were dependent on the government and, because FDR was right about the war and ran that very well, changed the political consensus post-war. No one was going to even be able to challenge the ideas for many years. But, that didn’t make those ideas right. Moreover, the nature of the New Deal’s policies changed significantly long-standing views of the Constitution and the powers of the Federal Government. The 9th and 10the Amendments in particular were ignored. At the time, critics said it would politicize the economy and lead to the government growing far beyond anything FDR would have imagined, let alone sought to do. They were dismissed as cranks, reactionaries, bitter, I suppose angry white males if we’re talking in today’s terms.
Now, jump forward to the 60’s. LBJ expanded government massively. He was able to do so only because of the foundation and justification established by FDR. When, the economic theories of Mr. Keynes finally blew up in the 70s (the stagflation that was not theoretically possible according to Keynes), it still didn’t fundamentally change the way people had become accustomed to looking at and thinking about government. That’s one reason why Reagan couldn’t really do more than slow some parts of government’s expansion and the massive regulation we continue to “enjoy.”
Again, no one here is socialist, no one is arguing in favor of nationalizing the whole economy etc. And yet, step by step, the role of government continues to grow. Is it not possible that the alternative explanation, which holds that the regulations and interventions create and amplify the problems, while creating a politically-connected commercial class, might be right and that intelligent de-regulation and some actually capitalist, free-market policies (taken in much the spirit the early Victorians dismantled Georgian merchantilist policies) should be considered? But, those are as dead on arrival as rolling back Ms. Schroder’s policies about women in the military. And, for the same reason. Now, do you enjoy being characterized in a certain way because of your views on women in the military? Do you think those of us who want an intelligent, secular and basically limited government appreciate being characterized the way the Tea Bag movement has been? That our views are misrepresented? That we’re told to basically shut up and take it?
The one thing that I will agree with you on, though, is that there is definitely hypocrisy on the part of some on the political right…I think you’re right about who the usual suspects are in this context. Those who took the view that anything the Republicans did in power was right and who now object to a certain extent deserve what they’re getting, but that’s not everyone in the movement. Moreover, it’s no different from every military officer who granted Ms. Schroeder her concessions on the way to our current Brave New World.
Skippy,
My sister in law started at community college here in my town and after 4 years of part time (she was working and supporting herself), transferred as a junior to Cal Berkeley with a 4.0 grade point average. She graduated from Cal 2 years after starting there with a 4.0 GPA in Classics. She speaks, reads, writes Latin and Greek. Her father abandoned her and her brother when she was an infant. (He is a millionaire with an estate in France). I guess I’m saying that I don’t think it really matters how long it takes to get that college degree. How many colleges did the ONE attend? What was his GPA at each of them? I’m just saying, “transparency” is what he boasted of and yet I see no sign of it and it seems to be opaque to you and all other democrats who voted for it.
You promptly dragged in every kind of payroll tax in order to assure me that minorities pay taxes too even though they vote the democrat party line. That was never my point. EVERYBODY pays taxes since we’re all subject to sales tax. Go ahead, you need to advance the argument that EVERYBODY therefore pays taxes. My point was strictly limited to INCOME tax and when 42% of the voters can continue to vote for increasing income taxes on the wealthiest 15% of the population you have to wonder how long that state of affairs can go on. Let us turn it about and ask what kind of justice and democracy we would have if the 15% that paid 85% of the taxes decide that the 42% that pay no INCOME taxes are not entitled to any benefit from INCOME tax revenue?
One can debate the rationale for such an argument. I won’t. I recall the King who was asked by his advisers why he was spending 90% of his treasury on the military and his answer: come the revolution, I’ll be ready. The last time this country had a revolution it was a bare 3% of the populace that launched it. I think we should keep that in mind.
I think having a tax paying class and a non-taxpaying class distorts a democracy. I think that is a bad thing. I would think all of us agree that such a state cannot continue for long.
I’ve never argued that there was not a need for tax reform. However we still come down to the basic problem: if not now, when do we fix some of the basic issues with the economy, health care and the other things that we have just stuck our heads in the sand and ignored.
What bothers me the most however is the language that the folks on the right are using. Lets say for arguments sake, that Obama is wrong about everything…how does that make him a fascist exactly? Do the teabaggers even know what the word means? I think not. He did not seize power at the barrel of a gun. He was voted into office and can just as easily be voted out of it.
What the teabaggers are really doing is dragging themselves to the antics that they professed to despise when the shoe was on the other foot. What, all of a sudden, makes it right now? This is not only poisoning American political life. It is making it ever harder to solve problems that require cross-party collaboration such as reforming America’s health-care system or its pensions. Unfortunately, the Glenn Becks of this world are more than just a joke.
Skippy,
I take the liberty of posting about my grammie. You asked about fixing basic problems in this society and I answer it is up to the individual to advance him or herself. If they want to be dirtbags and drug dealers and associate themselves with such than I bear no responsibility whatsoever for their outcomes. You make yourself like God, and account yourself responsible for every sparrow that falls. I would, that like all your ilk, you spend yourself into oblivion for your belief that you are somehow accountable to God for every unfortunate and not make my daughter pay your debts to a society that I detest. I do not feel such a compunction or duty and I refuse to accept that you or any person hold sway over my fiscal obligation for such. My grandparents felt a calling and answered it. My father entered West Point and spent decades in the Army. I spent decades in the Navy serving my country. I don’t need anybody telling me that my family owes some debt to those that will not help themselves. You believe in the philosophy of from each according to his ability to each according to his need but I don’t.
Obituary announcement for Elinor January 19, 2008
Mrs. Elinor died at home on January 19th, with her children
at her side, after a short illness. She was 101.
Elinor was born on the 8th day of December, 1906 in Glenville,
New York to John M. and Nora C. Cooke. Her father was a nurseryman and florist for the grand Hudson River estates of the period, and her mother was a nurse who had emigrated from England. She grew up with four brothers and one sister and is survived by one brother, Alfred Cooke of Bedford, New York.
After graduating from Tarrytown High School, she trained as a nurse at
St. Lukes Hospital in New York City. For a brief time she was a private
duty nurse, caring for patients in the city.
In 1932, with a sense of adventure and service that she retained all her
life, she journeyed to Twillingate, Newfoundland, to join the staff of
the hospital founded by Sir Wilfred Grenfell to care for isolated
villagers. There she met her future husband, Dr. Green, who
was spending the summer as a staff physician after graduating from Johns Hopkins.
The Greens married in 1933 and moved to Carlisle in 1934. They lived
above Dr. Green’s office on South Pitt Street until 1940, when they
moved to 274 Wilson Street, directly across from the Carlisle Hospital,
their home for over 50 years.
While she was a leader of the Women’s Hospital Auxiliary, joined other
volunteer groups, was a member of Travelers Club and enjoyed playing
bridge with friends, her principal concern was raising five busy,
high-spirited children. During WWII she planted and tended a large
Victory Garden on the Green property. Following in her father’s
footsteps, she was an avid gardener all her life, planting and tending
flowers, shrub and trees.
For more than seven decades, and until shortly before her death, she was an avid reader of both the New York Times and The Wall Street Journal with extraordinarily well-informed views and strong opinions on national and international affairs.
On many summer evenings over the years, she sat by the radio upstairs
listening to her beloved Baltimore Orioles while her husband sat in the
living room below listening to his equally beloved Philadelphia
Phillies. Fortunately the teams met only once in a World Series.
After the children left home, Mrs. Green was able to travel, at first
with her husband and later with her children. She crossed and recrossed
the United States and Canada, visiting with grandchildren and their
families and seeing the beautiful countries. She was also able to enjoy
trips to Hawaii, England, The Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Yugoslavia
and Mauritius.
In 1992 the challenge of taking care of the house and property became
too great, and the Greens moved to a smaller home on Glendale St. Dr.
Green died in 1993.
In the years since, she enjoyed a parade of visitors. Many were
grandchildren eager to have their sons and daughters appreciate what a
wonderful great-grandmother they had. Many others were members of her large and close-knit family enjoying chances to be with her, and
allowing her to know and love a multitude of nephews, nieces and grand, great-grand and great-great-grand nephews and nieces.
In December of 2006, over 100 of her extended family came to Carlisle
from as far away as Rumania to help celebrate her 100th birthday. After
a luncheon at the Carlisle Country Club, all of her 26
great-grandchildren visited with her; she knew them all, knew what they
were doing and interested in, greeted each by name and discussed their
lives and plans.
She is survived by five children: They brought her 16
grandchildren who, in turn, blessed her with the 26 great-grandchildren.
Not born with said silver spoon. Decades of public service. Not plutocrats who hate the masses.
if you’ll forgive me, all caps. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH A PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM THAT SPENDS UP TO $12,000/YEAR/STUDENT AND PRODUCES ILLITERATE DIRTBAGS AT THE END. We need to hold people accountable. We need to go back to basics and lose the dirtbags and teach those that want/need to learn. We don’t do that anymore. In fact, we challenge the teaching system daily by placing those that cannot learn into the normal teaching classroom environment and expecting that the results will benefit all our kids despite the disruptions we know that we can expect.
Skippy, we sorely need tax reform, I recommend either a flat or the fair tax. Personally I’d go for the fair tax because it’s much easier to do and there isn’t a chance for exemptions.
Looking at Curtis’s post reminds me on how much todays society thinks government “owes” them. Back in the 1930’s and 1940’s, familys took care of their elders because sure as hell uncle sam wasn’t going to do anything. Social Security comes out and now the government pays people not to work. (IE multi-generational familys on welfare).
I will say this about government run health care, if you think the health care system is screwed now, just wait once the government gets their hands on it, it will be a freaking nightmare. My experience with a government run health system comes from 14 years as a member of the Air Force.
I enjoyed your latest post. I had the same feeling of adventure when I stepped off the C-5 in Spain on my first trip overseas…OK, not counting the whole born abroad and flying home and getting lost in Shannon at the age of 2.
I remain unsure what exactly it is that you want to “FIX” about America’s Health Care. It is the best in the world. What would you do to make it better?
I’m also curious what you think is wrong with Pension Schemes in America that you think I need to fix with my $? I know that Social Security is a total Ponzi Scheme. Do you know that? Am I somehow on the hook for paying public service employees the ridiculous benefits that they won from city councils who negotiated these deals? You know, the same city councils that benefited from the deals they “negotiated” wherein “public” employees could retire at 50 with 150% of their full time pay and benefits? Let us not even discuss State public employee pensions. Oh, I know, you think I should make good on GM’s debt to its 1 million former workers and their families who enjoy full health care…..cause somehow I agreed to that when I was born?
What’s that about?
OH, AND SKIPPY NEVER GOES BACK AND ANSWERS THE MAIL SO I DON’T EXPECT ANY ANSWERS. HE ADVOCATES SOME INDEFENSIBLE POLITICAL POSITIONS AND DOESN’T HAVE THE WHEREWITHAL TO BACK THEM UP.
Do you know that the average home price in Detroit is now under $5000.00? Why do you suppose that is? Could it have something to do with the fact that a form of government that you have supported all your life has run that city into the ground?
Oh well, I expect no answers. C’est domage.
Did they beat you when you went through SWO school? I worry sometimes-you carry even more anger than I do. And I did not think that was possible.
My blog IP is blocked at work. I get to it when I can. Like SJS, I am part of the great unwashed masses that might corrupt the minds of innocent employees.
You raise three points-I’ll try to answer them. Since you are not the overall arbiter of such things-you’ll forgive me if I don’t subscribe to the theory that my positions are indefensible.
Health Care-the issue is not so much quality as it is access to health care. I’d also point out that I have had the opportunity to both observe and receive health care in three different countries ( Japan, Singapore and the United States). The US does not have a lock on quality and the other two countries make health care a LOT more accessible than we do. However in both Japan and Singapore, companies don’t get a choice in opting out of paying for healthcare-anymore than individuals do when they are working.
The S.O. had combination of Employer provided insurance and Japanese National Health insurance. When her heartless American company down sized her-the one worry she did not have was how she was going to get health care. NHS kicked in and it was transparent to her. She was still able to go to her doctor ( without having to wait days for an appointment) and the bills got paid. Her share was about what it should be. There was none of the BS like Cobra insurance or nonsense about pre-existing conditions.
Now contrast that to what my son had to go through when he changed jobs. I had to help him with his Cobra premiums-because he could not get health insurance right away. That’s because he is a diabetic. Contrast that with my ex who gets free health insurance for life-but cannot transfer benefits to my son because he too old.
( 20-20-15 ex spouse-but do you think she could pay for it? We spent a year arguing through lawyers about it.)
My son should have been able to move between jobs without fearing for his health insurance. While he worked he should have had to pay premiums for it and so should his employer. When he moved to the new job new health insurance should have kicked in immediately. And he is a health care provider.
Insurance companies move millions through the markets every day. They call the tune unreasonably about too many health care decisions. Their job is to pay the bills.
I believe that we have to move to a pay as you go system of private insurance with a safety net for when you lose your job. With 47 million more payers in the system the risk could be spread equitably. The fact that other countries can do this means its not impossible. Ability to pay should be the only criteria for bonding insurance.
Now about pensions. At some point we will have to transition from Social Security. I’m a believer in a CPF scheme like they have in Singapore. You HAVE to pay into your retirement and so does your employer. You also pay health insurance premiums while you are working and so does your employer. Singapore is not really a democracy so they can get away with that. I think America would like it better if it could get to such a system-but getting there will be hard. ( Oh yes in Singapore you can take 50% of your CPF account and use it as a down payment on a house-but you have to pay your self back). Once its established, I think it woudl work but transitioning will be hard-especially since the markets have tanked.
The problem is that America is not a culture of savers as I myself well know. I cringe everytime I think what I could have been saving had I not been chained to a money sump for 20 years.
House prices-500K is obscene. However do you really think that the municipal government of Detroit is totally responsible? How about houses that are just too damn big? Also its an average-wonder how Grosse Pointe balances out with the inner city?
And as for GM-the market giveth and the market taketh away. Why berate the unions for doing their job? E.G. looking out for their employees. You are giving money to GM because the consequences of losing an American auto industry are not ones we need to bear. It will impact you and I whether you believe it or not. Unions will have to make concessions and they will lose jobs-more jobs if the company goes in to bankruptcy.
We don’t live in isolation anymore-what happens to one set of folks affects us too.
Plus at the end of the day-when there are guys on Wall Street whining about how they didn’t get a million dollar bonus-well something is major league out of whack with that.
Skippy,
Your blog IP is unsafe for work. No surprise it gets blocked.
The beatings at SWO school were actually tame. On the other hand SWO wannabees transitioned to the fleet ~16 weeks after commissioning and assumed responsibilities for a division of up to 45 men while aviators were still playing grabass with each other for two years before actually joining the fleet and starting to work for a living.
Health care we’ll now discuss. I’m familiar with it. When I was a CO one of my sailors was admitted to hospital in Pohang with a kidney problem. I visited her twice a day. My corpsman spent most of his day with her in hospital. She was in a room with 8 other people. The only food they got was what was brought by family. Each of those 8 patients always had family in the room when I was there.
You talk about the FACT? that companies don’t have the option in Japan or Singapore to opt out of paying for health care. Prove it! Does the company that employs 2 mamasans pay for their health care? What’s the cutoff? You’re telling me that a tailor shop that employs 3 seamstresses pays 100% of their healthcare premiums and stays in business somehow? Get real. That’s right up there with assuring me that every pimp pays the health care premiums for his whores.
You make me laugh with your notion of forced/mandatory health care in the US. We’ve got it in case you didn’t notice. Most doctors refuse to accept any more patients in the government’s health care schemes because the underwriter (you and me in case you failed to notice) only reimburse them at about 28% of the cost of such care. You’re a lot like my little sister. She thinks Castro is wonderful and Cuba is great because they have so many doctors to look after the people and yeah they may but none of them has access to PET scans, MRI, X-rays, nuclear medicine, pediatricians, oncologists…and on and on.
Not sure what to say about heartless American company that laid off your SO. Is heartless US company still in business or have they joined the scrap heap of history? I don’t even know what a COBRA payment is. You may now color me clueless. {room for gratuitous shot here }
A pre-existing condition that invites extra care and attention and expense and you have decided that nobody should quibble about the expense and only jerks would aks for more from those that consume more…….Oh dear. From each according to his ability to each according to his need. You don’t give a flying fuck about a family of 7 with normal needs but you demand that they sacrifice a bit of their income in order to satisfy your need. We used to do something called WORK in order to meet the demands of raising our families. You appear to want to share the wealth and demand that I and mine work a little harder in order to meet YOUR demands. Pardon me if I suggest that your time would be better spent working rather than golfing.
I’m going to paste in your comments: “My son should have been able to move between jobs without fearing for his health insurance.”
And that is written into the Constitution is it? You may think that but what gave you the right to think that I or anybody else agrees? I pay my debts. I don’t ask anybody else to pay my debts. Why are you demanding that I pay your debts?
“While he worked he should have had to pay premiums for it and so should his employer. When he moved to the new job new health insurance should have kicked in immediately. And he is a health care provider.”
So what you’re saying is that your son is too stupid to understand that there is an obvious and to be expected gap in insurance coverage between one employer and the next and that there is absolutely no reason to assume that one’s previous employer must use the same provider as the next? You’re saying that he is too stupid to understand that some employers use Aetna, some Blue Cross, some use Kaiser…. and he is in the health care business? Did you beat him about the head and shoulders when he was young? How did he not understand that insurers vary from company to company?
Here’s your next fab quote. I really liked it!
“Insurance companies move millions through the markets every day. They call the tune unreasonably about too many health care decisions. Their job is to pay the bills.”
Let us see. These losers pay the bills but they should have absolutely no say in the payment of the bills. OK, I’ll send them all my bills and you may force them to pay them since that seems to be your approach to bill paying. I’m off to the Riviera! God bless insurance companies that must pay all bills!
Here’s more original skippy, “I believe that we have to move to a pay as you go system of private insurance with a safety net for when you lose your job. With 47 million more payers in the system the risk could be spread equitably. The fact that other countries can do this means its not impossible. Ability to pay should be the only criteria for bonding insurance.”
Me, I believe in paying my debts. I no more believe that I have the right to reach into Skippy’s pocket and steal his money to pay my debts than I believe that he has some right to reach into my pocket and steal my money to pay his debts.
Hawaii tried state mandated health care for its kids and went broke after 7 months (TREATING KIDS, not geriatrics) and ended the program. I’ll tell you what, if you want grandma to live forever, work hard enough to pay the medical bills. Me, I want to put my feet up and stop working before I die and I can’t do that while you and the people like you think you’re more entitled to my money than I am.
As I said, you and the SO could buy a very nice 6 bedroom house in Detroit for $5K. Your schools will suck but you don’t care about that and what the hell, 30% property tax on $5k is nothing. Gross Point and St Clair Shores are holdovers from an industry that will soon be dead in Detroit which means those million $ homes will soon be going for $10K. Is the municipal government of Detroit 100% responsible? Hell no. They had all kinds of help from state government. You wonder about the unions. Me too. They seem to have killed every single enterprise they touched over the years but only fools appear not to have noticed. Cars, Airlines, Steel, Garments… why don’t you go on and finish the dismal list. And if you think that was expensive and tragic wait until a thousand cities declare bankruptcy and write off the benefits they guaranteed to public employees and they’ll be followed by the states.
You need to keep your eye on the ball. Watch what happens to NYC and NY as the “fatcats” on Wall Street and Main Street retrench and the city and state deficits balloon beyond your wildest imagination. The money to pay these “obligations” simply does not exist.
Best news! You know how they say if you owe the bank a million $ you have a problem and if you owe the bank a billion $ the bank has a problem? Hah! Just like we took the Japanese in the 80’s we will take the PRC in 2010! “Oh, gee, we owe you 5 trillion $? Our bad. We’re not paying.
I’m hitting North Island in morning for golf before heading to the range and shooting in the afternoon.
Cobra is insurance that will carry over your health insurance if you lose your job. The premiums are expensive-especially when you compare them to a regular workman’s policy.
Her company was Eastman Kodak-the Japan subsidary. They consoldiated three Asia offices into one in Hong Kong. However they did not move anyone from Japan to Hong Kong. 🙁 If they had, I would have been gone from Japan in a second. And you probably would have found me tending bar somewhere in Wanchai.
They are not doing well. The transition to digital-Fuji kicked their ass.
Oh yeah. My college room mate’s wife worked at Eastman Kodak in Rochester. She lost her job there decades ago. I didn’t know they were still around.