This post is for Phib’s chattering class.
One of the most bracing things about going to a blog where hard core wingnuttery prevails-is having to defend common sense. It’s hard-because unlike what they would have you believe-facts are not relevant, and they are more than willing to attack you personally.
Yet like Lex-they defend the high quality of their discussion.
But the facts, indeed, seem to have a liberal bias-at least when it comes to the debt ceiling negotiations.
And now they’ve lost Fox News host Bill O’Reilly. In his “Talking Points” monologue last night, the prominent conservative said “Republicans need to accept the need to raise more revenue,” suggesting a 1 percent national sales tax to help deal with the deficit.
Admit it Bill-I’ve been right all along.
Or witness this from Lindsey Graham-another member of a dying breed in the GOP:
“Our problem is we made a big deal about this for three months. How many Republicans have been on TV saying, ‘I’m not going to raise the debt limit.’ You know, Mitch [McConnell] says, ‘I’m not going to raise the debt limit unless we talk about Medicare.’ And I’ve said I’m not going to raise the debt limit until we do something about spending and entitlements.’ So we’ve got nobody to blame but ourselves,” Graham told reporters after a GOP caucus lunch.“We shouldn’t have said that if we didn’t mean it.”
Now admittedly , to the truly retarded devoted, Graham is not considered a “real Republican”-in spite of a lifetime of service to the Republican party. Because the generation leading the country down the path to econonmic failure does not really care about the debt, the budget, or anything else, but reinforcing their own selfishness and imposing it on others.
There is a reason that “true believers rail on and on” about socialism, and “taking money from others” and government confiscation-and I hit on it in the last post. They don’t think anything bad is going to happen to them. They believe their jobs are secure, they fancy themselves as more savvy investors than the rest of us, and they beleive that God sanctions their lack of charity towards their fellow human beings. No one, AND I DO MEAN NOONE, has real problems-there is always blame to lay somewhere else.
They even cite Jesus-“The poor will be always with us”.
Of course, that, like mosr biblical points is always taken out of context-especially since even Jesus acknowledged that the poor may always be here, it was our obligation to help them-and do the best we could to reduce their suffering. Even if it didn’t always succeed 100%. And even Jesus had a “war on poverty” spelled out in The Revelation. Speaking of charity, that whole idea of paying a bill on sins He hadn’t earned strikes me as pretty damn socialist, if you ask me.
And unlike most insurance companies-Jesus did not charge for his healings. But hey, why let the context get in the way of wrapping evil up in a Christian dressing?
But I’m the class warrior.
They cannot admit the truth-this fight is not about Obama. You want to have a fight about the federal budget? Do it when you pass the federal budget-but for God’s sake don’t screw over millions of people just to appease a bunch of people schooled in ignorance:
What happens when you take the certainty of an ideologue, mix in an unhealthy dose of economic illiteracy, shameless demagoguery, and bring the combustible mix to a boil on the national stage? Quite possibly national default and a new recession.
The nature of this mix—and the corner into which GOP leaders have painted themselves—is neatly illustrated in the latest poll numbers from The Washington Post and the Pew Research Center.
As the Post’s Chris Cillizza and Aaron Blake note today:
The data suggests that those who identify as Republicans who are supportive of the tea party not only view themselves as far more educated than the average person on the current debt debate, but are also far more worried about the impact if the debt limit is increased.
More than eight in 10 tea party supporters (81 percent) said they understand “what would happen if the government does not raise the federal debt limit” — far more than the 55 percent of all respondents who said the same thing.
Three quarters of tea party supporters said that they were more concerned that raising the debt ceiling would “lead to higher government spending and make the national debt bigger,” while just 19 percent said they were more worried that “not raising the debt limit would force the government into default and hurt the nation’s economy.”
…
The message from the numbers? Tea party backers simply don’t believe that not raising the debt limit by Aug. 2 is all that big a deal — and they feel that way because they believe they understand the issue inside and out.
…
If a significant chunk of his House members don’t fear the consequences of a default, it’s very difficult for Boehner to make the case for the fierce urgency of now in the debt debate.
While the overwhelming number of economists—and even prominent non-economists like John Boehner and Mitch McConnell, who have both stated that not raising the debt ceiling is unthinkable—say that failure to raise the debt ceiling could have a host of nasty consequences for the economy, like a global financial crisis, downgrading of the U.S. credit rating, and a second recession … the Tea Party crowd has anointed itself a group of experts who know better.
So then, as the economy fails they will simply cheer-because hating Obama is more important than anything else. Otherwise they would have passed the raise and concentrated on defeating Obama in 2012-and with not allowing them to be blamed for a 3000 point drop in the DOW. ( My personal prediction for how much it will drop in two weeks after default.
This is what I was talking about in the previous post. The will not to believe. You don’t like Obama-then fine-put him out of office through the Constitutional process.
But don’t hate your fellow citizens.
And URR-you of all people should know this.
I love all of this talk about the Feds “defaulting” on the debt. I always thought that the 14th Amendment precluded that sort of thing:
http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv (see section four, first sentence)
Of course, with no default the Feds will have to print more money, causing unchecked inflation like we’ve never seen before. I predict strong business in used Radio Flyers to lug our cash around.
Once that happens the third American Populist Revolution will take off, and the Repubs will go the way of the Whigs. They and what’s left of the teabaggers can polish their monacles and talk about the “good old days” of the 1990s while the rest of the country actually lives in the here & now, and gets on with life.
I don’t predict that will happen at all. I predict the markets will tank-interest rates will climb and unemployment will go still higher. If anything, the 14th amendment proves how stupid debt ceiling legislation is.
But the Fed is not going to print more money-all talk of QE-III aside.
Yeah, bloated government spending has nothing to do with a president whose entire philosophy is tax and spend.
I have a copy of Das Kapital in the bookshelf. When I want to know what you think, Skippy, I will open it up and start flipping through the pages.
Have fun expropriating the expropriators. Let me know when the next COMINTERN meets.
URR
Thank you for proving my point. I hate being called a socialist- because I have never been one. But you would not know socialism if it bit you on the ass. It’s sad really ……….
URR
Another point too- government spending has a shitload to with the wars. And overseas committments we can no longer afford.
If he’s about tax and spend then why didn’t the Congress take him up on 4 Trillion in spending reductions? And why hasn’t he raised taxes even once?
Skippy, you’re God-damned funny when you want to be. “why hasn’t he raised taxes even once”…….shit that’s good! Yeah, with full control of both houses that fuckstick couldn’t even pass a fucking budget for 2 years!
Why couldn’t that loser or his party raise taxes with full control of both House and Senate? You gnaw on that, pause and reflect, look at the real world, practice some Greek, Italian, Irish and Spanish words along the lines of “Holy shit, we fucked up!” Helps if you say it in the same voice as Achmed the Dead Suicide Bomber.
wait wait wait, what was Obama-care? Wasn’t that the single largest tax increase in history?
wait wait wait, what is spending without limits regardless of revenue other than a demand downstream for payments and easements and more taxes….?
You need an adjustment. I’ve said it before. My money ain’t your money and it ain’t Congress’ money. It’s mine. I’ve elected people to ensure that this simple easy to understand philosophy is understood again by my government. Don’t come crawlin and whining about what you’re due and what I owe. If you owe a debt to society-you pay it.
Skippy,
I didn’t call you a socialist. I called you a communist. You use the language of class warfare constantly.
For the record, socialists are biting me in the ass. All I have to do is look at my W2 to see that.
“In the carboniferous epoch, they promised abundance for all,
By robbing the selected Peter, to pay the collective Paul.
And though there was plenty of money, there was nothing for money to buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said ‘If you don’t work, you will die.'”
Skippy,
Active duty long time lurker, infrequent anon commenter. Could you please drop me a line with your e-mail address? We have similar thoughts on life, politics, women and much else and I’m interested in getting some mentoring.
(E-mail hidden)
URR-I have been working on proposals for our revised contract bids for a year. Its union busting without the unions. The government agency we work for-is essentially trying to cut salaries across the board for the work force by 40%. Now they are not doing that overtly-but in the only way they have available. Which is by rewarding companies that screw their employees. That’s not class warfare-its a healthy contempt for a disgusting practice. In most cases these folks have well earned the salaries they currently make-and have given a lot more of their time and lives than contractually they were obligated to. They do that because they care about what they do-and the contribution it makes to the country.
Their reward for a job well done? a 40% pay cut, if they are lucky enought to keep their job. Many are the same age as me-changing jobs and starting over is not very easy in your mid-50’s, nor are employers running out to recruit older people.
At the same time-a typical hedge fund manager on Wall Street-working essentially the same hours, for something that produces nothing-pulls in millions and millions. The argument that he earned those millions is specious to a great degree-it is just a fact that are value systems are so screwed up that it places a greater value on what that hedge manager does than on contributing to the national defense.
You think your W-2 is the mark of socialists? That’s a whacked out point of view. A w-2 means you have a job. And I’ll bet if I could look at yours and then look at your actual taxes paid-your tax rate would come in under 15% And yet you whine about even that.
I pay a fair amount of taxes-and while I don’t like not getting the money, I clearly understand that I don’t like not having services worse. That those services are not all they should be is what you should be angry about-not that you pay taxes at all. The world of 1896 that you appear to long for was not really so great.
Skippy,
Sorry but you are wrong again. I work in an industry that is lowering their billing rates to get projects done… And if my company wants the projects they have to offer lower rates. So that means those of us left to do the work either accept lower salaries or lose our jobs. In today’s economy, which is poor because of socialist policies which are way anti-business, what do you think I would do. I have kids to support and a wife to feed. I’m gonna keep my job. I pay way more than 15% taxes too. And now the government wants more from me?
You, a Navy guy, knows what I, a Navy guy, would say to the government over that. It starts with F and ends with U.
Subsunk
Skippy, you should patent your magic math. The $1 trillion over ten years for the GWOT and the $400 billion over three years from the “Bush tax cuts” adds up to $3.35 trillion over two years of 2011-12 deficit.
Now, you tell me that the nearly 17k in taxes that shows on my W2s is only 15% of the 61k in gross income. Wow. You really are something.
Oh, and cry me a river about government contracts. Mine was signed, and, after I had turned down work from other entities to make room for it, the government pulled funding for it.
That’s the same government that you want taking more and more tax money to cover their spending. Yeah, services all right. I returned some milk bottles last evening, and was asked how I paid for the milk. When I inquired why they wanted to know, I found that there was a rash of people buying the milk with food stamps, going into the parking lot, pouring out the milk, and returning the bottles for a buck a piece in cash, and then going to buy crack with the cash. My tax dollars at work.
Hedge fund manager, my ass. Again, with the language of class warfare. If people think that is what he is worth, when the f*ck did you get the authority to legislate differently?
You’re a communist.
Skippy:
Did you get that hammer and sickle flag i sent, with a black fist on a red background and the poster of Che? (signed of course)
In California some lifeguards make in EXCESS of $100,000 a year.
In NY and other places teachers are paid NOT to work as they await ejudication on their cases/claims etc.
In my city and others like LA, enormous sums of money are paid out to litigants, including police officers, in claims that languish for year with the accrued interest and penalties because cases are not resolved in a timely manner..
We , you know, the people, are tired of this c^ap.
Waste. corruption,lack of common sense, this is what ‘government” has come to..and while 1896 might not be the halycon days of yore could it be any worse than today?
Maybe Engels and Marx had it right after all..
My German was never good enough to read the original.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Lets take it from the top:
1) If you are only making 61K gross and paying 17K in taxes ( actual taxes-not witholding) you need to redo your W-4 and find a better tax preparer. At 61K I can assure you my Fed and State tax bill would be much lower. ( Again-actual taxes, not withholding).
2) Subsunk-I understand exactly what you are saying, my company is having to do the same. I think its a bad way to business and I know at least in the case of our customer-it has nothing to do with anti business practices. It has everything to do with a WPOS Army Three star who thinks his contractor force is overpaid (he thinks the same of government work force too-but he can’t change their salaries). Furthermore-when you see work going to another company, even when , like mine, we had the lowest bid-something stinks. That’s why GAO is calling them on the carpet. If push comes to shove-I am sure I will have to change companies and take a pay cut just to keep a job. But just because I know why-doesn’t mean I have to like it.
3) Sometimes you guys should actually sit down with tax tables and figure out what happens if the Bush tax cuts get repealed. In my case it only makes about a 100 difference per paycheck in withholding taken out. Properly planned for-I am confident I can still end up paying the same bill I do at tax time. Someone making 61K gross will not see an increase-look it up. But I’ll come back to Warren Buffet’s quote, he pays less taxes percentage wise than his Secretary and that is wrong-if the deficit is such a problem, spending cuts alone will not cut the deficit. Even if you cut back on EVERYTHING you still don’t make a dent in the deficit without raising revenue. Now there are alternatives to income taxes like a VAT or a War surcharge on gasoline-something we should have implemented to pay for the wars. Now, the increases in the Obama out years are primarily due to the fact that health care costs will skyrocket. No one has yet to propose a way to reign those in-and when someone does they get branded as a Socialist. Eventually we come around to madantory insurance or single payer and catch up with the rest of the world-but I doubt we will be around to see it. We could have it in 1971 when Nixon proposed it.
4) Which brings me to math and context. No matter how you slice it-the War cost the US an extra 1 trillion dollars over and above what it had planned to spend. At a time it was cutting its revenue by around 500 billion. Same with TARP and the Stimulus. But the increased debt was the bitter medicine needed to keep the patient, in this case the US economy from dying. I don’t think you guys realize how close we came to financial Armaggeddon in 2008. If the Debt ceiling is not raised-it will be a lot worse this time because of all the banking mergers that happened around that time.
5)The math is really simple-right now on average the wars and the Bush tax cuts add 600 billion to the overall deficit. A lost 600Billion in revenue acclerates the trend-when compared to 2007. That comes up to 1.2 Trillion. And over time the continued tax cuts will deprive the government of still more revenue. Making the deficit worse. So if you want to lop off a lot of spending fast-leave Iraq and Afghanistan. If spending is such a problem-that’s a good place to start. FWIW the ultimate fiscal conservative Ron Paul agrees with me.
The US rates 29th in total taxes paid. It is true that for the middle class the tax burden has gone up, and in the last ten years their real earning power has gone down. But for the top 1% their tax burden has been cut by amost 50%. Call it class warfare if you like-I just think its basic fairness.
Oh and spare me the welfare stories-for every one like that you can find ten where there is genuine need and it is all that is keeping them off the streets. Can indivduals help themselves -yes. But is there genuine need-you bet there is.
If you owe a debt to society-you pay it.
That’s right Curtis you do. And it would appear you are not paying your fair share.
Skippy,
You’re so good at figuring else out so how much do I make and how much do I owe in order to keep my $100k life guards, $800k State Prison Psychologists and 439k prison guards and $239k pensioned chief librarian? I figure nothing at all and you won’t see me pay a dime of it.
You seem to think that every tax $ spent was done in my name and binds me to produce more $ to pay for it in perpetuity and that just ain’t so.
Left California this month forever.
1) If you are only making 61K gross and paying 17K in taxes ( actual taxes-not witholding) you need to redo your W-4 and find a better tax preparer. At 61K I can assure you my Fed and State tax bill would be much lower. ( Again-actual taxes, not withholding).
Skippy, to your comments above, what good will adjusting your W-4 do? They will take out more with holding taxes, but the end result is the same. You will still be short of the money. My situation is probably like his. My regular job is around that figure, then when you add the retirement pay, I am all of a sudden those “rich” that Obama wants to tax heavily and I feel it every April.
Yet, some of my lesser fortunate relatives have free health care (for the kids), free housing, and free post high school education (for the adult), free cell phone service (they get it from Virgin who has a contract with the state to provide the service only if people are receiving public assistance) and more certificates in fields that one could actually make a living in, even in this economy (i.e. in home elderly health care, etc)and yet they refuse to get a job, willing to keep doing just enough as long as they can qualify for the free stuff.
Wow, Skippy. You’re right. H&R Block isn’t very good at tax preparation, probably because they aren’t very experienced. I should have let you do it.
I suppose this is where you tell me all about single payer health care and its wonderful benefits. I am sure you are expert nonpareil in that subject as well. I am all ears. So are all my hospital CEOs.
Vermont estimated a couple of years ago that the number of people who are either unlawfully getting food stamps, or getting higher amounts than they should, or are defrauding WIC (when they gather outside the WIC office, almost all of those young mothers smoke, and have multiple tattoos. They had money for that, didn’t they?) is nearly 25%. A hell of a lot more than your ten to one.
Reagan sure was right. You far-left commies know so much that isn’t so.
They even cite Jesus-”The poor will be always with us”.
Skippy, to your above comments, you do know that according to CA state tax laws, the top tax brackets for state income tax purposes begins at around $45K. So they are paying the same state tax rate as those Hollywood elites also. So I guess you just have to be clear on who is actually poor. Since it seems the Dems are going after those supposed rich who have the lear jets and other items, but when they make the comments that the wealthy should be paying more in taxes (especially in CA where they are having the same arguments on the local scale as on the national scene), they are going to just keep taxing those who really don’t have as much to give, keeping the cycle of dependancy going.
But in CA, at least the “rich” are going to be paying their fair share.
I think you guys are dodging the real question-no matter how much you dislike the current system, we have to find a means to finance current obligations. Unless you propose to totally dismantle Social Security and Medicare-in which case you will need to pay for more police to clean the streets of the rioters. The Deficit Commission offered several suggestions to fix the tax code and reduce overall rates. They have been ignored by both Democrats and Republicans alike.
Re: Taxes. When I was an O-6 I was making about 67K ( once alimony was factored in). My fed tax bill was around 9K a year. I had very few deductions-I did not own a house. Granted I was getting COLA and free housing which made a big difference in my quality of life, but it none the less was less than 17K. I paid no state income tax as a PA resident. Now here in Alabama, I pay a lot more in taxes, but I still could be a lot worse off. So I will count my blessings.
This argument really comes down to one major point-what services do you want from the Federal and State government? It would appear that URR’s answer is “None”. I don’t agree with that point of view. I believe that health care is a right and I also want a world where I have decent infrastructure, transportation and a scheme to fund my retirement. That doesn’t have to be by the federal government-but in so doing, I think its only fair to demand that employers ( of any size) recognize that they have an obligation and so do individual citizens. That’s how CPF schemes work. It requires something very “unAmerican” but very necessary-a mandate and enforcement.
Universal health care is achievable-and it does not require single payer system. There are several real experts in the field who have pointed out that other countries in the world achieve this-at a lower cost per patient than ours.Whenever asked about it, conservatives trot out two words tort reform-which-while needed is only a bandaid that does not attack the real problem. Same with selling insurance across state lines-which is an anathema without universal standards. Real experts have pointed this out over and over again. The will not to believe always kicks in.
And as for Reagan-he said a lot of things, but when he recognized he couldn’t get to the end of the road-he raised taxes. A good bit. One thing Reagan would not have done, was stay involved in a loss leader of a war for ten years. I give him a lot of credit for knowing when to fold his cards and take his ball and go home.
Skip,
You are never going to gain any ground here. you are trying to argue rationally with a lot of Grumpy Old Men, too set in their ways to ever change….
you just have too much separation these days between the people who watch MSNBC and the people who watch Fox. And neither network bothers any more to give equal time to opposing views – they just repeat what you already believe and congratulate you for believing it and being smarter than the other guy.
Spek-you are right. But it gets under my skin more than a little to know that we are going to be led down the road to ruin by our tri-corner hat wearing brethern, who haven’t bother to even understand the ideas they spout-or much worse, learn the real history behind it.
Since it is your blog, you get to be an arrogant, self-righteous intellectual dilettante who, when not touting how much about everything you know, can spend your time telling others how much they don’t know.
Your bolshevik president and his bolshevik fellow-travelers have had us in the HOV lane on the road to ruin for 2 1/2 years. Your solution? Hit the accelerator.
When you finish carving your statues of Paul Krugman and Eugene Debs, maybe you can get a job in this administration as the “forcible redistribution of the wealth” Czar.
Do I know more than you URR? Yes. Am I arrogant ? No. I am more than a little angry though at the recklessness of the opposing point of view.
The facts haven’t changed and I challenge you to show me how you would have gotten unemployment down to below 6% , still fought two wars , cut spending at the same time against the backdrop of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. Rather than call me names explain how you would do that.
It is not that Obama is so great- cause he is not. But it is that the alternatives are far worse. And even if McCain had won the debt WOULD HAVE INCREASED. Even McCain says that.
So instead of trying to provoke me- answer the question.
“Do I know more than you URR? Yes. Am I arrogant ? No. ” Uh-huh.
You refer directly to me and the “chattering class”. Well, if by “chattering” you mean working 50-60 hours a week, saving for the future, buying only what I can afford, and getting damned tired of my own government using my money to solve the problems of others? Then yes, I am “chattering”. And when idealogues like yourself tell me the solution is to take even more of my money, then I will chatter even more.
Everything else you can stuff in your bolshevik backside.
And I don’t work 50-60 hours a week? I’ll be happy to show you my time sheet. Especially while I am over here in Romania. We all do that. Its not just conservatives that save money for their future buying what they can afford-at least I do.
But again its interesting that you won’t answer the question. How you would fix the problem? Your government is taking no more of your hard earned money than it was in 2007. ( Fed tax rates now are the same as they were then. FICA and Medicare are too.) So given the backdrop of how bad the economy tanked in 2008 and the its potential not to stabilize in 2009, how would you have done it differently?
People are “chattering” when all they can do is shout names instead of offering a well reasoned argument.
I don’t care what you do, or don’t do. You labeled me and then proceeded to tell me how much you know and how little I know, smacking of the same intellectual elitism that constantly emanates from the far left.
Your constant anti-Bush hysterical screed when pointing to the cause of the downturn (the Bush tax cuts! The WARS!) instead of the actions of government regulation and quasi-government organizations, controlled by the Left since 2006, makes your assertions of the “solution”, raising taxes so the government can spend more, no more credible.
So again I would ask the question. It is 2009 there is 10% unemployment there is a huge meltdown in the markets and you have two wars to fight- what would you do?
I never labeled you except to point out- as I have consistently over here that what passes for “informed discussion” in the milblog world is mostly tripe. Anyone who tries to argue a different viewpoint than the hate Obama viewpoint is immediately trashed. Part of it has to with the fact that most arguments take more than 3000 characters tom lay out and part is from the will not believe. Accept it- move beyond it.
Yeah, other than to say that any assertions made you don’t agree with constitute “tripe”.
You really want to know? Okay. Like you say, the discussions of each require more than 3k characters. But:
Raise SS retirement age to 70 immediately, for all those who are younger than 55 on 1 Jan 2012.
Reverse the Johnson “Great Society” legislation that allows those to draw from SS and Medicare/Medicaid who never paid in. Yes, this includes immediate halting of all benefits to illegal aliens.
Revert all Federal salaried and hourly positions to 2008 pay levels and freeze them there. The only exception is military pay.
Reverse the Carter executive order that allowed public employee unions the right of collective bargaining.
Eliminate the Department of Education. Entirely. Another Carter creation.
Reduce the size of the Environmental Protection Agency and place it under the Department of the Interior. Then eliminate the EPA’s power to file lawsuits against ANY entity unless they can go into court and show cause for violation of Federal law.
I agree with item two-none of the others, although a case could be made to rasie the age you can draw benefits to 67. In other words slide the scale 7 years to the right that currently exists. But as I mentioned before conversion of the system to a CPF arrangement with strong mandates and enforcements
RE: Item three-you get what you pay for. It would be better to cut the size of the work force through a RIF than freeze pay. Federal employees deserve to have the hope of pay raises too.
The last three don’t save real money-and they are counterproductive to a greener world. (Since I accept global warming as fact, I’d like to reverse that).
Also I have never understood the hard on about the Education Department. Most civilized nations have an Education Ministry.
I could agree with you about putting under the deparment of Interior.
See? We can agree more than you think.
Part II:
Enact and enforce trade tariffs for all imported steel and machined products from countries whose governments subsidize to drive down cost (China, South Korea).
Remove restrictions on tapping domestic oil and natural gas sources, with a first priority of trebling the SPR to about 2.2 billion barrels.
Revamp Welfare and welfare programs such as food stamps, WIC, subsidized housing, and require mandatory drug tests for all recipients. Immediate expulsion of those who fail.
Revert Federal pay to 2008 levels and freeze it there. The exception is military pay.
Reduce Long Term Capital Gains tax to 5% for everyone.
Abolish the Estate Tax for estates under $20 million, and cap ET rates for any over $20 million at 15%
Allow for an IRA contribution of $10k per person, and 401(k) and 403(b) contributions of $25k per person.
Immediately halt the “in perpetuity” salaries of all Congressmen. For all taking office after 1 January, 2013, pay stops when the elected official leaves office.
Enact term limits of 3 terms for the Senate and 6 for the House of Representatives.
Ok. I don’t agree with item 1. They will still sell their items-just not to us. It will hurt us competively.
Item 2 needs to be in the middle ground. drilling but tighter regulations. Leave the SPR alone.
Item three is odd for those who hate government intrusiion in their lives. I think it borders on a volation of the 4th amendment. Besides-it won’t save that much money.
Re Federal Pay- I stated that above. Better to reduce overall numbers and provide an incentive to do better. You get slugs who will stay and the good people won’t. Most federal workers I know want to do well-they also want the same things every one else wants. Again -do the math and look at total savings.
Capital gains-where is the offset.
They are all good idea-but with the exception of the IRA deduction which puts capital in the markets-I’m at a loss to see how they reduce unemployment.
And Term Limits require a Constitutional Amendment.
Skippy, you see we don’t agree on the very basics of the approach.
You consider drug testing for federal welfare recipients to be government intrusion, but the government reaching into my wallet to pay for them, anything but.
China and South Korea will sell to any markets they choose. But when we allow them to crush our own strategic industry by government sponsored undercutting, that has very little to do with competitive anything. Give our own steel and machine industry a chance.
You also look at capital gains as something that needs offset, rather than as something to be encouraged to stimulate economic activity and provide more investors rather than more tax revenue from each investor.
“Reducing unemployment” as an end is fool’s gold. Reducing the conditions that drive it will reduce it far faster and cheaper than programs directed at only a symptom of the disease. Anti-business policies and an uncertain picture on tax implications have done much more to stifle growth than anything else. Elected officials talking like labor organizers makes business owners rightfully wary. Cut it out, and stop having MY government picking winners and losers. That is what market forces are for.
As for federal pay, from the 2008 baseline, only increase pay commensurate with a rise in cost of living.
Re Federal pay-that has pretty much been the case for 5 years.
I’d support trading a capital gains cut for a 4
% VAT to offset the revenue loss. And I would support a cut in tax rates for business- but with an offsetting elimination of write offs.
As for taxes in general we have a fundamental difference in philosophy. You see them as theft – I see them as payment for services the country needs- with the caveat that they could be delivered better than they are now. I cite as my example Japan and Singapore.
Plus remember why FDR championed the progressive income tax to begin with.
One other point about business – you already have people picking winners and losers because of the merger mania of the past ten years. Thanks to short selling and other capital flows good companies can be destroyed in short order. If it were up to me I would ban the practice. That is not anti business but encouraging an environment where little guys can compete. Some – and the emphasis is on some- regulation is necessary .
I said FDR, I meant TR.
I don’t consider all tax a theft. But those that go to other people to buy things I cannot afford comes damned close. When that money goes there to perpetuate a voter base, it is indeed theft.
Business owners pick winners and losers all the time. That is what they do in the marketplace. If they guess right, they prosper. If they are wrong, they fail.
However, it is NOT for the government to do. Never, ever. The role of the government is to GOVERN, which is mutually exclusive of such actions. Which is why quotas based on race, gender, or sexual preference are such an egregious miscarriage of that government. And a government that villifies and actively persecutes certain segments of its population is a small stride away from tyranny.
See: tobacco companies, gun makers, gun owners, business executives, whites, males, heterosexuals, Christians, oil companies, insurance companies.
Some of the above I am not a fan of (tobacco), and if laws were violated then they should be charged and prosecuted, but the villification of them as an active ingredient of our own government shaping public opinion reeks of brownshirts and party rallies.
“Revamp Welfare and welfare programs such as food stamps, WIC, subsidized housing, and require mandatory drug tests for all recipients. Immediate expulsion of those who fail.”
Let me give you an example on why I think this is very important. I am not trying to “beat up the poor” but we are heading down the wrong path. In my hometown newspaper “Arkansaw Dem-Gaz” I ran across an item in the Police Beat. To sum it up, a 19 year old woman, with her two kids, was robbed in her home by her cousin and roommate (that is a another whole issue unto itself) of $800, a 50″ TV, and a laptop.
We keep hearing that the poor in America get no health care, and how expensive it is to get help. In this case, we have a 19 year old with her own apartment (Section 8), with 2 children. If medical costs are so expensive, how can she afford to give birth to two, assuming that she took advantage of all of the prenatal care that is available. Also, if she is poor, and on Section 8 housing, how does she have a 50″ TV? I work, and I didn’t get my first large screen flat TV until well into my 40’s. A lpatop, they can be had relatively cheap, but cable and internet connections cost. So this person is doing quite well for herself with no job.
So we see in this case, a young women who by most of the world standards, is doing quite well for herself considering she has no job. I say that because I know the area she lives in, and I can probably point out at least 100 others in her same situation who have just about as much as she has and probably more.
Welfare reform needs to be done. Watch the video of the scramble for Section 8 housing in Dallas this past week. Reminds me of the painting of the “Boomer Sooners” in the Oklahoma land rush.
Make a serious attempt at reforming welfare and the Great Society entitlements, and some of our problems can be fixed.
URR – Persecuted for being Christian? really? This country is as close to a theocracy as any country in the world….
and please tell me how the homosexual agenda for equal rights has ever made you, personally, feel persecuted as a heterosexual?
(note: this is where you rush in and call me a “fag lover” or something equally absurd)
Skippy supporting a tax cut for the “rich”. OMG I think he got confused with all this back and forth banter!
spek,
When you say things like the US being as close to a theocracy as any country, you tip your hand to your alternate universe. Which makes logic largely irrelevant.
When the government takes sides in such debates and violates the 14th Amendment in order to be more “fair” (read the “hate crimes” legislation lately?), then that group is championed, advocated for, and favored.
The only category of citizen who has not had such special considerations in violation of our Constitution is the heterosexual Christian white male. Everybody else has some special consideration under the law.
Skippy (and others),
The reason why I posted my above post is that there seems to be a tendancy on this board (and many others) to discuss these problems in “academic” terms and with no real life situations. That is good for some items, and I am sure that the excess and trickery that many discuss here on this and other boards about what is done on Wall Street and other places where the “millionares” work is vital, but just like when Kenneth Starr went wrong in chasing after Clinton (tracking the crimes that he was used to seeing in my opinion), he missed many of the things that people whom he would normally not have any connection with knew.
For the story I mentioned, think about the money spent on this young lady. 2 children by the age of 19. Last time I checked, it is pretty expensive to have a baby if you have insurance, so take the average and multiply that by 2 in her case. I can tell you this, I bet you a week in Singapore that she is not finished bearing children, and I would imagine she will have a few more. Not to mention, the free child health care they receive in AR, and when they get older, she will do the age old trick done by many in AR is to have the children labeled “dvelopmentally disabled” so that they can get an additional amount of SSI. My mom was a teacher and this was a rampant problem.
So you figure for this woman to have the 2 kids and all of the benefits she is getting, it will probably come out to around $30K (light estimate). I can tell you that she is not alone, and probably in Pulaskit County alone, she will be 1 among maybe 5,000 (an easy $150 million) in costs to the Feds. So we should go after waste fraud and abuse in Wall Street, but also Main street too.
I have no beef with stricter enforcement of what are already existing rules.
I thought you had to be “devolpmentally disabled” to live in AR ( or Alabama) in the first place. 🙂
Well Skippy, just like always you fail to answer the questions posed by, not the t bagger, not the nazi, not the rou paul, just that guy who demands to know why he owes a public employee just like those of TSA ilk $500,000/year for doing their little public job.
You and your other skippy buddy can’t come up with any justifiable reason either so you just shut up about it.
Deep in your hearts you want those jobs and damn the fact that you don’t have friends to get them for you.
Curtis-you lost me there, who at TSA makes 500K. Even our most senior SES’s make nothing near that amount.
But yes I would like to make 500K a year.
Skippy,
Only if you drink the water from jugs marked “XXX” will you get that way.
What’s really sad about this scam (it’s called Crazy Checks) is that parents can get around $400 per child per month. So in the story I cited, the mother right now will be able to get at least $800/month on the two children she has now, and I am sure that whe will have another few in the years to come. So if she “pops out” anothe r2 kids she will be getting at least $1600/month for at least 18 years. Not bad work if you can get it.
Also, this makes it harder for those people who have mental health issues that develop and don’t get into the “Crazy Check” scheme early on hard to get help.
Just do a Google search on “Crazy Checks” and you will find all sorts of stories. Some may seem too incredible to believe, but you know who I am, and when I tell you I have seen those things happen, they are not lies.
I know may people who make a nice living being “poor” in America. I honestly think that we should be not only going after all of those scammers on the top, who are ripping off the government (on all levels) as well as those who are doing it on the bottom. I want to help, but I don’t like being taken advantage of.
Skippy,
An article from Seattle in 2007 talks about this issue.
Here’s the link: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003711379_webfraud17m.html
She was able to get at least $287,716 since the mid 80’s teaching her kids to scam the system.
Even though that may be small peanuts to Wall Streeters and the “jet set” that still is a lot of money that is probably multiplied many thousand times, which to me is just as bad.
We were discussing the 14th Amendment, equal protection under the law, and a government who chooses politically protected groups? From NYDN:
“A Bronx man was viciously assaulted and robbed on a subway train Sunday by four men who he says taunted him for being white.
Police confirmed they are investigating the assault and robbery of Jason Fordell, 29, but have not labeled it a hate crime.
They are seeking the four assailants, who fled the scene. A fifth passenger who police say spontaneously joined in the attack has been arrested.
“Everyone on the train was egging them on,” said Fordell, 29, of the early-morning attack on the 4 train.
Reverse the colors and effects and see if it would be labeled a hate crime.
Ah,
Claim to be a Psychiatrist in CA and make $800,000/year seeing prisoners from the state.
Work as a librarian in San Diego and retire with a $230,000 pension from the county.
Work as a state prison guard in California and make $439,000/year from the state.
Work as any of the top five public employees of Bell, CA and make over $400,000/year on a budget derived from a 39,000 total population.
Progressives and Liberals all.
Let’s take bets on shit. I’ll bet there are at least 300 people in TSA who make well over $160,000/year.
What are you quibbling over? Every single TSA person or HLS person is a total and complete drone. The combined salaries are public record and yet they do nothing. Nothing at all. Kind of like the Department of Energy or the Department of Education.
We were discussing the Federal Government’s demonizing of certain segments of the population?
Object lesson. http://www.infowars.com/dhs-video-characterizes-white-americans-as-most-likely-terrorists/
Easy to dismiss Napolitano as an imbecile, which she is. Where is she getting her marching orders? Eric Holder? Barack Obama? Hillary Clinton? Conveniently, none of those three are white males. So we know they can’t be terrorists. What a relief.
Mark my words. Such slander which started during the term of Attorney General Janet Reno, yet another far-left liberal lesbian power broker in a Democratic administration, will be hammered home in the media, on TV, in the classroom, until it is repeated back, like North Korean brainwashing. And it will be used for justification for ever-increasing law enforcement surveillance and tracking of law-abiding citizens, using all sorts of technological means.
Wanna talk about budget cuts? The entire of DHS, starting with that fat strumpet Napolitano. All enemies, foreign and domestic. She thinks it is we, I think it is she.
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
Unless you are a white male. Who believes in the Bill of Rights.
I will tell you-I don’t understand why folks get so upset about that video. I think the main reason there hasn’t been more teahadist terrorism is that most teatards are too old to get off the Barcolounger and blow shit up. But what if you could you be a terrorist without leaving the comfort of your own home, simply by causing a massive government default?
That’s the situation we are in now-and whining about the DHS is not going to solve it-especially when DHS will get gutted in the stupid spending cuts we are about to enact.
Pay me!
fuctard.
FUCK YOU PAY ME!
A frigging Squid PILOT complaining that people like comfort?
How many ways is that wrong?
What’s Latin for “What about MY needs?”
Didn’t sleep in too many fighting holes, did ya, there, Skippy?
Oh, and from a comment at Phib’s place, seems to fit your lunatic lefty meme.
“One prediction: It will be used by the Left in this country to further justify treating political opponents as security risks and national enemies.”
That shoe fits you like a dream.
When the right stops behaving like terrorist’s – people will stop labeling them for what they are.
I’m angry and tired of being told I have no right to stock up for my beliefs. That is complete bullshit. This country could be great- but it chooses not to be because of stupid selfish people.
I have just as much right to be angry as anyone else. RAISE THE DEBT CEILING.
Plus, what does it matter if I was in a foxhole ? That has absolutely no bearing on this discussion. I joined the Navy because I wanted to fly and see the world. I had no desire to do what the infantry does. I still have no desire to do that. Nonetheless I dud 29 years and am owed my retirement- and the fucking government better pay it.
If personal comfort has no bearing on the discussion, then don’t bring it up. When you do, and someone busts your squid flyboy nuts about it, you turn into a whiny little shit.
You aren’t the only one who’s done 29 years, either. Yet, you are arrogant enough to tell everyone who you label as “right” that they are acting like terrorists. Then you are stunned that your lunatic lefty ravings fail to make much impressions on someone who thinks for himself. Which you then chalk up to Fox news and Sarah Palin. And of course, GW Bush. Get over yourself. When was the last time you even saw a terrorist?
I never brought up comfort. I brought up the fact that most teabaggers are hypocrites.
The world has changed and sadly-most of the “american exceptionalism” brigade have not grasped that fact. That’s the fact of it-and your continuing defense of those flawed ideas is wrong.
Eventually we will wake up and smell the coffee-the only question is how much pain we endure getting there.
It’s not arrogant to stick up for what is right. Get over it you selfish bastard.
And I will have the last word on this as comments are now closed.