From where you would expect it to come from-across the pond.
I am of mixed feelings about the Arizona immigration law. On the one hand,border security needs to be tightened up-we need to start having immigration checks both ways in and out of the country and if you get stopped for breaking the law and are found to be here illegally-then you get sent packing.
At the same time-the idea that you have to produce your “papers” just because a cop thinks you are suspicious-well that does smack of something un-American. It makes Arizona no better than the stinking Chinese.
The situations are different in one obvious way. In contrast to law-enforcement officers in Arizona, the Chinese authorities didn’t have to waste time wondering whether I was a citizen. One glance told them where I stood. (I understand that there are some Caucasian-looking Chinese citizens, but they are scarce.) The only judgment call was whether they should bother to check whether, well, my “papers were in order,” in the phrase we all know from WW II movies.
If they had checked very often, I would have been in trouble. In theory, foreigners are always supposed to carry their passports (as Chinese citizens are supposed to carry their identity cards). In practice, I almost never did. When checking in for a flight or registering at a hotel in China, sure: Without a passport, you couldn’t do either thing. But when at “home” in Shanghai or Beijing my wife and I kept our passports in our apartment’s safe. The theoretical risk of being asked for documents was outweighed by the truly dire potential consequences of our passports getting lost or stolen.
I’ve been in a similar situation-and I was also witness to watching the Chinese police hassle any woman with a Filipino or Indonesian face in Hong Kong.
So much of the discussion about immigration is rooted in fear-not facts. Consider here, in my current “adopted” hellhole state of residence of Alabama. A candidate for Governor (Tim James) is campaigning for office by saying that driver’s test should only be given in English. Since the S.O. ( who took her driver’s test in Japanese, is a legal resident in this country, and does speak English-but was more comfortable taking the test for something pretty important in her native language) is affected by this law-I pointed out to her how it was an attack on her, not just the Mexicans who build the houses down the street. I wonder how Mr James would feel if he was in Japan-and had to deal with ATM’s that were only printed in Kanji. Something tells me he would be pissed off. Then again, in Japan, you can still get around without a car. Not so in the tea bag loving state of Alabama-where everything is spread out and public transportation is a fiction. Furthermore, there’s nothing he can do about the tests. It was a federal order. He knows this.
Which brings us to words about immigration you should be hearing-from the Economist:
Many people have observed how the networks of overseas Chinese and Indians benefit their respective motherlands. Diasporas speed the flow of information: an ethnic Chinese trader in Indonesia who spots a commercial opportunity will quickly alert his cousin who runs a factory in Guangdong. And ties of kin, clan or dialect ensure a high level of trust. This allows decisions to be made swiftly: multimillion-dollar deals can sometimes be sealed with a single phone call. America is linked to the world in a different way. It does not have much of a diaspora, since native-born Americans seldom emigrate permanently. But it has by far the world’s largest stock of immigrants, including significant numbers from just about every country on earth. Most assimilate quickly, but few sever all ties with their former homelands.
Which as Lexington points out-can be too our benefit:
Immigration provides America with legions of unofficial ambassadors, deal-brokers, recruiters and boosters. Immigrants not only bring the best ideas from around the world to American shores; they are also a conduit for spreading American ideas and ideals back to their homelands, thus increasing their adoptive country’s soft power.
Arizona’s law is sure to be struck down in the courts soon-and most probably deservedly so. However it has definitely highlighted the need to deal with immigration problem-just as the nation needs to deal with its other problems. These are a much greater threat than the Podunk nation of Iraq or Afghanistan. Yet, look where we invest our resources.
UPDATE!: The S.O. reminded me that part of what James said is a lie-the applicant must be prepared to take the driving test with a tester who speaks English, and interpreters are not allowed to go on the test drive. She had a heck of a time with the lady who gave her the driving portion of the test ( her Japanese licence did not count for diddly when we got here)-because the woman spoke with a southern drawl that was pretty thick. “Alabamaese” throws her for a loop-she is used to people who actually speak proper English.
Skippy,
Unlike in HK, the AZ police just can’t stop you for looking too brown. They still have to remain within the legal limits of the 4th Amendment. Woe be unto the cop who writes an illegal with the violation if it is discovered that he did not have probable cause to stop him in the first place. That is what is good about our over zealous trial lawyers and the ACLU in cases like this. If someone is going to be charged with being an illegal, I am sure that they will not be just picked out at random. I think that is what makes it different from HK, where the Filipina’s and Indonesians don’t have adequate legal representation.
And besides, if you have to show an ID to rent a car, cash a check or buy a drink to make sure you are over the age, why is it all of a sudden racist to show proof that you are a citizen? Foreigners in France have to keep their passports on them at all the times, and I am sure you have heard how difficult it is for foreigners in Mexico to travel without the proper identification. As a person who has had to pay a “fine” to get someone out of the hands of the Tiajuana police on the streets, the AZ cops will shore far more smarts in carrying this law out than people think they will.
Well, thank God you didn’t use the Nazi Germany/Hitler analogy like Weiner on Chris’ show and EVEN Chris said in his comments at the end of the show tha HE is tired of the Hitler analogies being used ALL the time in situations like this in order to make an emotional point.
Thanks for using China instead.
Drivers test:
So in Alabama they have the test in 10(14?) languages?
What happens if you only speak Hopi?
The horror of showing id:
When I was a Peace Corps Vol in Korea we needed to carry our ID all the time and in those days buses and trains were boarded by the police and army to conduct id checks. I didn’t like it but then again, my country wasn’t threatened by a manic up north.
They don’t have copy machines in China to make, you know, a FREAKING copy of ones passport…jeez, what idiots.
Wouldn’t it be prudent for us ALL to carry an ID, God forbid something untoward happens?
I am perplexed why this is a big deal to some.
Years ago there was a commission headed by the now deceased Barabara Jordon that looked specifcally at he economic impact of illegal immigration and THEN it was determined that it was at BEST an economic draw,
I’d be curious to know, other than the pointless musings stated by The Economist, what currently, is the cost/benefit ECONOMICALLY of illegal immigration.
I think the issue is simple-probable cause. The Arizona law as I understand it has redefined that-to make it anything the police want. That is what is not going to survive a court challenge IMHO.
Immigration reform has two parts:
1) We have to seal the borders-period. To that end I would use the Army, beef up the border patrol and probably build a “neutral” zone between Mexico and the US. That would be a more productive use of forces than being in Iraq.
2) The people who are already here, will need a path to legal residency. Not necessarily citizenship but residency for working. Employers are guilty of expoliting the availability of illegal aliens and they need to be punished for that.
The Economist is talking about legal immigrants and how if the folks that were here could be channeled to assimilate into our culture-the country as a whole benefits.
Well, at least Arizona didn’t adopt Singapores law for dealing with people that overstay their visa. In Singapore if you overstay your visa, besides being sent packing, you get one wack with a cane that has been soaked in water for 24 hrs previous, on the bare buttocks – caning! Now there’s a deterrent to illegal immigration.
The law has, just now, been modified so that police can try to ascertain ones citizenship status pursuant to a stop for, say driving erractically or loitering etc ..they CAN NOT just stop you and ask for “papers”
Right. illegals take the crap jobs that Americans won’t do, at least not at the wages offered to illegals.
Skippy, understand your ambivalence. It is shared by Dean of BwD and me. I think the difficulties in solving this problem are that so many key players have incentives to keep the broken system in place. No one wants to say it out loud, but everybody is getting a little something out of the current mess. The illegals get jobs because they have a pay advantage, the employers of same get cheaper labor, consumers get a bit of the price break, the Dems get to accuse the Republicans of racism, the Republicans get to accuse the Dems of world socialism. The whole situation keeps simmering and ordinary folks who live on the border are suffering. I have several posts on this subject on my blog.