Its been an interesting week-albeit a disappointing one in many ways. Some short notes on the week that American political see saw began its ride back down.
Issue #1:
I have read in three different forums now-disgruntled tea party fans who are quite upset at being called the term “tea bagger”. Since the term has a sexual connotation they are quite bent out of shape that someone might want to use that term as one of disdain for them and their movement. A specific quote disparaging use of the term pointed out: “We are supposed to be intellectuals not gutter mouths who can’t find acceptable English to replace vulgar overtures.”
It might fall on more receptive ears were it not for one thing: these people are disinclined to return the favor. The same people who are begging for civility on the one hand, are more than willing to go out on a Saturday with a several hundred of their compatriots and call the folks who disagree with them any assortment of names that are guaranteed to make non aficionados of right wing politics angry. In the past year I have been called, in no particular order: Nazi, Socialist, Statist ( whatever the hell that term means), liberal, communist, and unpatriotic. Not to mention the real irony of saying “let’s play nice” while carrying around any number of signs portraying opposition politicians as Hitler, The Joker, The Devil, and the other lesser nice things bordering on real racism.
But somehow, I am the bad guy for calling them a word play on the name of their movement.
Kind of makes it hard to accept that they are really serious about that term “civility”, don’t you think?
I hold the tea party movement in contempt for three reasons:
1) Its intellectually dishonest. Tea partiers state over and over again that they are “just plain folks who want to continue the American Dream of pursuing Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.” And people who want health insurance reform because they are tired of getting the same raw deal don’t want to pursue the American dream? Give me a break.
Furthermore-their continued harping on the founding fathers-and their claim to a tie to the American Revolution is a real stretch. Especially when you read what the founding fathers actually said, vs what the tea party talking points tell them. It insults my intelligence. Especially when you see them “quoting” the Constitution and constitutional case law- but ignoring the parts that don’t fit their narrative or the context of the judicial opinions they cite.
2) As was pointed out earlier, their claims about being disgusted with both parties sound more than a little hollow. Where were the demonstrators in 2002 when the Congress was rolling back taxes at the same time it was ramping up spending? Where were the folks who claim it is their heartfelt desire for “a smaller federal government, fiscal conservatism, more states rights and greater individual liberties, ” when the same federal government was trampling on them through the auspices of the Patriot Act, the expanded wiretap authorities of the various anti-terrorism laws, a war started for no good reason via means outside of the designated constitutional path-a declaration of war-and has cost over 5000 good and true Americans their lives in a cause that accomplishes nothing for the nation? The simple truth is-they were not there and could not have been bothered to be there. It was only on January 20, 2009 that their anger was somehow kindled. And if its about more freedom-then why are these people somehow so hung up on what people do in their bedroom and with whom they do it with?
3) The real thing I don’t like about the teabaggers and their movement is that it is not a movement at all. It is a carefully planned and aggressive misuse of a genuine sentiment-real concern about the end effects of planned legislation ( like insurance reform)-for very narrow political purposes, namely to get friends of Dick Armey and their friends into the positions he wants for them. As was also pointed out by folks wiser than me, ” When your money floweth from the teat of the insurance industry, you are perhaps little more than a tool of corporate interests, either wittingly, or worse, not.”
The people behind the curtain think they can keep the wild eyed crazies within the movement in control-as I recall that’s what a lot of Communist Russians said in 1917 or Germans in 1932. Look how well those “movements” turned out. Not so well.
The anger these people are stoking is just right for a demagogue to jump into and ride on to a path to a real dictatorship if they are not careful. And these folks, many of whom are nice enough if you keep them away from Fox News and Glenn Beck long enough-have no idea of the anger they are stoking with their signs and slogans. The demagogues are out there-witness Sarah Palin-but they just haven’t hit on quite the right one yet. Trust me however-he’s out there, just waiting his chance. He’ll ( and it will be a he) be charming, well spoken, well groomed, well educated and will ride a wave of popular resentment.- Just like the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania avenue did. Or worse yet-more reasonable people will be so afraid of the emotional violence the tea partiers have set in motion that they themselves will do unreasonable things. The liberals they disparage so much have already had that happen to them-and watched some of the things they championed slide down into the pit of unreasonable being. The same thing will most probably be the fate of the tea partiers after a few more elections. I’ve already read of people who say there should be a “purity test’ to be a Republican. What’s up with that?
For the same reason the teabaggers do-fear and anger.
These people have no idea of the terrible forces they are playing with. Nor do I believe at this point-do they care.
And that is why- I cannot take their whining about the term: teabagger, very seriously.
We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, [A Tea Party member] is not the least bit interested in solving it. [They are] interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who’s to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. You gather a group of middle-aged, middle-class, middle-income voters who remember with longing an easier time, and you talk to them about [government run healthcare, rationing, taxes,] and American values and character. And wave an photo of the President [looking like Hilter ]and you scream about patriotism and you tell them, [liberals] are to blame for their lot in life, and you go on television and you call them [socialists].
Your comments are the reason we should not take the teabaggers too lightly. They have no respect for nor concern for truth, justice or any other traditional American value. We may awake one morning and find enough good people have been blinded by rhetoric and “other” bashing to get themsleves elected. If succeed the excesses of prior administrations will look like a Sunday School cake walk. These people are dangerous.
Not to say there are not good solid honest people who are pulled toward the stated goals of the Tea Party crowd – as you note not really a movment. There are. That fact reflects the power of Bull Shit as described in the excellant momograph “On Bullshit”. At least liars know and respect the truth. Bullshitters care nothing for the truth. Do not know it or care to know it. There is only the desire to manipulate the listener.
Tea Party organizers and beneficiaries excell at spewing Bullshit.
Ah, Huey long, where are you when we need you.
What is fascinating to me is the rhetoric on the left and the right.
Not too long ago Chris Natthews was talking about the possibility
of a militray coup against Obama IF he didn’t do what the military
wanted or when there were folks who carried guns to a Obama appearance
and of course, in the minds of Keith and Chris, this was a real danger to the
President.
Chris had on Sy Hersh a few times when Bush was Prez and claimed that he had reliable sources that there was a 90% chance that Bush would attack Iran before he left office.
It seems Bullshit comes in various shades of red and blue.
Bullshit is color blind. At this moment is history the teabaggers seem to be the masters of manipulating the application of copious amounts of bullshit.
Another thing that continues to bother me is how fluid the “values” of the tea party adherants are. Witness the avowed dedication to Christianity. Makes me wonder WWJD re: issues such as health care. Seems to me Jesus was a healer; not an insurance company. Also seems Jesus would be called by the Tea Party folks a flaming Socialist.
How do the Tea baggers justify their own cognative dissonance; or do they even try? Or recongnize.
Speaking of military coups-has anyone been following the dust-up over the guy who wrote about that? Shades of Mr. Dunlap.
You guys are hilarious.
Skippy, you left out S-P in your list.
Break, talk among yourselves.
The very same folks who very vocally decried the Bushitler label are now silent on the Obamahitler moniker. Which makes them a what, … . I think the majority of tea partyers are simply angry that their guy didn’t win and would protest no matter what the current president does.
Limbaugh and Beck (and their ilk) are out to enrich themselves, they would say grass in pink and the sky is green if there were any money in it. Unlike the majority of the teabaggers, however, they know exactly what they are doing, they make up the bullshit and spread it around to see what grows. Any mentions in the media, outside of their own narrow slice of it, positive or negative, is good for the bottom line because more people will be tuning in to hear the next stupid thing uttered. It is called shtick.
I think the teabaggers are going to be absorbed into the greater “conservative movement” (such as it is called today, in this county) co-opted to do their bidding and get the next guy elected, then forgotten and discarded like yesterday’s fish wrapper. I don’t think they have enough momentum, organisation, money, or knowledge to go it on their own, buy hey, you never know.
I’m willing to accept the premise that both Foggy and Skippy put forth; that they’re terrified of a group of people who simply quote the constitution and thus both are forced to live in fear of the day when those teabaggers are going to take over the country and impose that hideous document in all it’s terrifying clauses and amendments on the land. I’m forced to confess I don’t understand why both of them persist in running down people who simply want the fundamental law of the land to be imposed on the land instead of consistently being undermined with additions from the Communist Manifesto.
I sense that they don’t really understand that many out there (teabaggers et al) are terrified of the group of people who “know what’s best for you” taking over without any Constitutional limits. You know the guys I’m talking about; the ones that want to ban private education, eliminate private insurance, force doctors and hospitals to accept whatever $ amount fee for service the government bureaucrats decide, dictate who may or may not own a weapon, make donations to a political campaign, well enough.
In this, Skippy-sans friendly forum, I don’t see any sign of movement to the center. This makes me wonder if there is a center anymore? I think in the past what was used to bind the nation together, particularly after horrendous events like the Civil and Revolutionary Wars was a “national” crisis. Whether that was the War of 1812 or World War I, I don’t know. It might take something like that to force the country back together again but I don’t see what it could be.
It looks like the party of the left has been trying to create gigantic fake “national” crises for the last 20 years in the hope that the divisions that started during the end days of the Vietnam War can somehow be healed if enough people can be led to believe that they must all pull together in order to get the US or World through some great existential crisis. I think it started in the 1970’s with Global Cooling, moved on to a Health Care Emergency under Clinton followed by Global Warming.
All of them absolute fabrications and hoaxes which any ninny knew after a second’s consideration of the evidence.
Elsewhere we wondered what rabbit would next be pulled out of the hat by the fear mongers and while some were saying that there would suddenly be a need to build asteroid defenses others argued that they’d be useless against the enormous mutant star goats or swarms of giant man-eating piranha bees.
From my perspective on the whole entire matter, about half the people in the US feel entitled to what other people have and about half the people here in the US don’t share that belief.
When you think about it, the guys that just wanted to be left alone were not and never have been the great movers and shakers. It was the guys that felt entitled to what the other guy owned that created, drove and enforced the great “isms” of the last century. So yeah, when faced with somebody who is keen to redistribute the wealth we know what that leads to.
Skippy,
I’ve always been confused when those of the left make known their profound fears of some kind of Right Wing Dictatorship in the US based on the fears that a giant ground swell of Constitution spouting teabag types will suddenly find a suitable tyrant.
Communist dictatorships are left wing
Socialist dictatorships are also left wing
What in the bloody world is a Right Wing dictatorship in your mind? I think your answers should allow that such a vision has as it’s base people who are being lured into applying the existing Constitution.
Do you think it will be some great fundamentalist Messiah like the one’s Robert Heinlein wrote of? Do you think it will be somebody like Pinochet who kept Chile alone of all S. America out of the chaos of the Cold War? Other than that, I’m wracking my brains about what this great Right Wing Dictatorship would look like.
Curtis,
The ACLU is an organization that does nothing more than quote the Consititution. Nobody likes them very much.
Teabaggers do more than simply “quote the Constitution”. They are taking an interpretation of it that is not in line with what the document says-nor what the Founding Fathers intended. The Constitution was not meant to be a document preserved the rights of some at the expense of others.
In a way you are proving my point-the rhetoric is so over hyped. This is not about the Constitution either except that Congress is trying to enact a law within its authority to provide for the general welfare. Whether that is a good idea or not is what the discussion is about-and it has nothing to do with socialism or any other ism.
Furthermore-simply ignoring a problem does not mean that it does not exist. Health insurance is a problem in this country because we do not have a vehicle to ensure all of the citizenry has access to it. Your “right” not to have health insurance imposes on my right to have a healthy and happy life. Your right to pay health insurance CEO’s obscene sums of money-while they deny people coverage because of BS reasons-ends up costing the rest of us money.
Using your argument, I have the right to drink-and drive. Its a free country. The reason I don’t do that is that my “right” to drink threatens your safety. The same is true for health care insurance. The amount of money wasted when someone goes to the ER when they don’t have to is money that is not used to help you stay healthy.
Want to know what a right wing dictatorship looks like? We had visions of it in the last eight years. It will be one in which your communications are increasingly monitored and censored. Where the government can sue you for libel for attacking people like the tea party folks. Where corporations with money will enjoy more rights than an individual citizen. It will look like China does today. Or Singapore with its one party state. Or Malaysia. It will be a country that claims to be a democracy-but in reality is not.
Pinochet killed thousands. Defending his government is not exactly a taking the moral high ground.
I disagree with much of the Tea Party movement but I can’t say I’ve ever had the need to be rude. Can’t say I find the practise very elevating. That’s one man’s opinion.
Curtis, you certainly have a passion in your writing. Democracy requires an honest disagreement in order to stave off tyranny. A right wing dictatorship would look a lot like Span under Franco. We can already see some elements of authoritarianism in the US. Government surveillance of everyone. Suspension of basic human rights. Think of all the instances where someone insisted that the government has the authority to do something.
I myself am often considered quite liberal, but don’t let the labels be your guide. I don’t think President Obama undid a single one of the authoritarian encroachments enacted by his predecessors. Plural.
The pseudo-legal mechanisms are in place for a dictator; a war without Congress declaring one, against an extra-national group we can’t even identity (war on terror, what?) with sweeping new powers ‘granted him’ by the Constitution under his Commander-In-Chief role.
Skippy-san, thank you for keeping the blog going. I rarely comment, but through the magic of RSS I read every post.
As i said before and being as wise as I am(TIC) Everything changes when you sit in the big chair.
Governing is a lot different that campaigning and maybe, I know this is just crazy talk, Bush and co. were correct in their assessment as to what is/was needed to protect the American people.
I don’t think Bush was anywhere near a right wing dictatorship. Thats just hyperbole.
I LIVED under a right wing dictator named Park Chung Hee as a Peace Corps Volunteer in Korea. Censorship, KCIA everywhere, Chaebols, buses being stopped and checked by the military etc. Now THAT was a dictatorship that favored business but ignored political and human rights. Indeed, saying the wrong thing and you would join the
“disappeared”.
But, oddly enough, the people put up with it because their lives were MATERIALLY better. They could see progress. They could see the planting of fields with rice and hills with trees and roads and schools and peace.
and you could live your life with a hope in your heart as long as you kept your mouth shut. A price too high? look at Korea today.
Was it worth it?
All they have to do is look to their brothers and sisters up North for the answer.
Richard,
What you just pointed out was the devils bargain the people of Singapore have made with Lee Kwan Yew. Their lives are materially better-but they have paid a considerable price for it. Problem is, that price runs on a sliding scale: Chinese have paid little, us gweilos not so much more, Indians and Filipoinos a hell of a lot more.
Can Americans live with trading freedom for improvement in living standards? I’m not sure.
I’ve turned over a new leaf. I’m only doing the civil debate anymore.
Skippy, I’m not sure you and I are talking about the same Constitution. You can find mine here: http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/index
That’s the one that carefully spells out and defines and limits the power of the federal government, the states and reserves every other right to the people. Note, it doesn’t give anybody the right to take away those rights. However, Adde parvum parvo magnus acervus erit. I blame that vindictive SOB John Marshall.
Skippy, can you give me one single power granted to the President by the Congress under the Patriot Act or other that the One and the Democratic Congress have done away with and are not using today? I think that every single thing that an evil minion of Darth Cheney’s could do legally 3 years ago can and is still being legally done by this administration’s evil minions. Rendition, Gitmo, secret prisons, secret spying, wire tapping, email interception, etc. Governments don’t sue for libel. The bankers and fat cats that brought the ruination of Wall Street and GM now run the Fed, the Treasury and serve as the president’s economic policy advisers.
The countries you listed are lawless. We once had a fundamental law and held to it for generations and did well enough as a nation. It’s only as we let the government usurp our rights and continue to expand its power as it has in China and Singapore that we fall under the boot of dictatorship. Now who is it who says ignore the Constitution and let the power of the government grow to encompass anything it wants to do even if that means unilateral takeover of the Auto Industry, the Banks, Health Care…..why, it’s the liberals isn’t it? It sure isn’t the Tea Party crowd. That would make it Left Wing Tyranny.
What do you want with regard to Pinochet? No killing allowed not for any reason? Hiroshima, Hamburg, Dresden, Nagasaki, Rouen. Some wars are fought in the dark. Best place for them.
But you and I go a long way to revealing my initial point. We have both pretty much used or drawn from the same material and reached diametrically opposite conclusions. When two sides can use the same data and draw completely different conclusions there is more going on then simple disagreement. One side or the other has a brain cloud. I’m curious to see how it works out.
As I read Buck’s comment I was struck by the utter meaninglessness of the term right wing or left wing. If an authoritarian government with the means to compel its subjects without any checks or balances emerges, what does it matter if it is my port your starboard? Dictatorship is dictatorship. If we accept that Spain’s Franco imposed a right wing dictatorship in Spain than perhaps the sole distinguishing feature between the two types is that one can feed it’s people and the other cannot. I guess one could see the same thing in Richard’s comment about Park Chung Hee or Skippy’s about Lee Kwan Yew.
If you think the war on terror took away rights imagine what the war on drugs did to them. And as hideous as that is, just look at what the war on poverty did to America.