This is a guest post although the author does not know he is posting here.
I came across this discussion on another board I monitor, but no longer participate in-primarily due to the fact that too many of its participants have descended into that intellectual hell known as "conservative and / or evangelical thinking". Shorter term: F*cked in the head teabaggers.
So its kind of refreshing to see someone have the continued courage to engage with these folks when its quite clear that nothing short of heads hitting concrete will get any opinion through to them. Nonetheless, I offer this to you -especially those who fear the ACA is a harbinger of the coming of the anti-Christ, to sit down and STFU.
Take it away guest poster: Outlandish statements from deranged tea party sympathizer in red.
Let me ask some questions about your statements below, since you did not provide details:
1. "I don't disagree with the concept of everyone having insurance. That is not what Obamacare does."
Really? Seems to me this is exactly what the law is designed to do – and affords those who wish not to purchase insurance the freedom to pay for the privilege of not purchasing insurance while placing everyone else at risk these individuals will get sick and we all have to pay to care for them.
2. "Obamacare is over-reach in government and it is designed to take control of just about every aspect of our lives."
Really? Every aspect of our lives? Perhaps you can explain exactly how does this law control every aspect if my life – your life? it seems to me, unless you are a rich hospital executive making $ Million plus compensation gouging patients for $50 boxes of Kleenex or $500 walkers, its just another payment you make a month – only from now on, you will have more choices.
3. "It reduces free markets ability to reduce costs, not improve it. It is intrusive into personal information and is a control tool."
Really? How? "Free markets" right now allow the food chain of greedy hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, "providers" of just about every item in the hospital to over charge for everything – and you and I have no practical way to stop the escalation of price gouging.
4. "I have laid out many times, a logical means of making sure everyone is covered or is responsible for their own medical costs and it uses economic incentives, not governmental tyranny."
At this point a request was made to expand on exactly what he meant. No rational reply was forthcoming.
In other words, I take your response to mean that having repeated the meaningless rantings heard on cable networks (from the typical gang of hate mongers) when pressed to provide details, you are at a loss to provide even a single supporting fact why the new – yet to be implemented law – is causing the "sky to fall, " why we are losing our freedoms, or other explanation of your rhetoric calling out the dogs of war to oppose this law. OK – but I will wait and see just what happens.
The last question and response is critical. Changing America's health care insurance system is long overdue. The ACA , in my opinion does not go far enough in this regard-but at least it is doing something. To hold the government-and by extension the US and world economy hostage to objections that were settled in the last election, truly makes me ashamed to be an American. In Britain right now they are having many similar discussions. The S.O. and I see them on TV every day. But Parliament has never not passed a budget. Only America. This is not something any American should be proud of…….or advocate. Those who do-are, as I have stated many times, more than a little selfish.
I'll Let Jon Chait explain it for you:
Most of us expected, at some level, that the election would cool the right’s apocalyptic fervor. Instead, the opposite has occurred. Paul Ryan candidly explained the calculation: “The reason this debt limit fight is different is, we don’t have an election around the corner where we feel we are going to win and fix it ourselves. We are stuck with this government another three years.” This is a remarkable confession. Republicans need to compel Obama to accept their agenda, not in spite of the fact that the voters rejected it at the polls but precisely for that reason.
The exhaustion of electoral channels against Obama has spurred the party to seize power through non-electoral channels. Their opening demand that Obama sign Mitt Romney’s entire economic plan into law in return for avoiding a debt default, while historically bizarre, followed perfectly from their legislative strategy this year…
Their aversion to compromise has been accepted as settled fact in Washington, reimagined not only as a new normal but as the way it’s always been. Republican Dana Rohrabacher defended the use of debt-ceiling threats to pry concessions from Obama like so: “People have to recognize there’s never any compromise until the stakes are high. In our society, that’s the nature of democratic government.” That is completely false. American political parties have forged compromises for decades without high-stakes threats to bring them to the table. Not to mention the fact that, by “compromise,” Rohrabacher means unilateral concessions by the president…
The hostage dynamic of the debt-ceiling fight has created a dangerous, historically unusual set of circumstances. One aspect of it is to set up a precarious, high-stakes negotiation, the failure of which could set off large, immediate, and irreversible damage. The second is to reset the balance of power between the president and Congress, allowing the latter to compel the former to submit to its agenda without concessions. Both these changes would permanently and dangerously alter the character of American government…
The only proper word for this is disgusting. And if you share Ryan's views, then you too are aiding and abetting the decline of your nation.
Skippy,
A bit off topic here but still fits under the category of "Reasonable Ma being an Endangeed Species" I just read that former C7F COS, VADM Tim Giardina was removed from Deputy of STRATCOM due to issues related to gambling.
Having served under him and his predecessor "Uncle Fred" as we called him before he made Flag, VADM Giardina was a fair man. At my level I didn't really have too much interaction, but he was overall reasonable. I guess going to the Indian casinos in Nebraska will get you in trouble these days.
As for the Health Care issue, I will believe it is the best thing since sliced bread when the unions and members of Congress and the rest of us Federal employees are forced into it. I am not so blind as to see that changes needed to be made in our system, I can see some benefits from the law, but overall it needs to be redone. When the IRS is in charge making sure people are covered, then I have the feeling it is nothing but a money grab.
And before people start talking about how places like Japan does it, they need to take a closer look. My spouse no longer works due to having out child. But yet, she still has to pay taxes on her last year's income amount for this year, even though she doesn't work. She still also has to pay for her and baby's health insurance. So much for "free healthcare."
If Congress can go back and change the way retirees are treated under Tricare after the so called promises were made, and if htey can go back and change the payouts and dates one is eligible for SS when an agreement has been made, then they can go back and rework the ACA. But it is just partisan politics on both sides, but I blame the Dems more so on this one since they are the ones under Pelosi who said "Let's pass this so we can see what's in it." (Her words not mine)
A "fair man". I would never use those words to describe Giardina. A55wipe would more likely be appropriate. He was instrumental in the push to requrie FCG to relocate from their (FCG's) shore based facility to the flagship. FCG was, and is, a shore command. He directed us to more aboard and integrate with the C7F staff on a permanent basis, including when the flagship was underway. We were directed not to inform any other commands of this directive. He did this so C7F could use the shore based facility we were presently assigned as a place for C7F staffers to work out of when they were on the road and the flagship was at sea.
This tour was of course coded as shore duty and all of our enlisted personnel, as well as myself and the CO, had rotated their from sea duty. To say this went over poorly for our enlisted folks, and me, would be an understatement.
Our then CO, who was about to PCS and did not want to rock the boat, didn't do anything to try to stop this abuse of power.
I decided to email my detailer and ask what could be done since C7F was not going to do anything to try to re-classify FCG as a sea going command. I also asked if I would be eligible for the sea duty bonus that aviators got for sea duty back then. Naturally, my detailer said I would not be eligible for the bonus since I was assigned to a shore command but he was very helpful and passed this issue along to the head detailer who had a conversation with Giardina and told him that if this plan was executed there would be issues. After this, the whole thing blew over and was not raised again. So yeah, you wont find my respect or pity form him from this neck of the woods.
I had my run ins with Giardina myself in my previous life up at Atsugi. While not as bad as Byus-he still was the executor of Williards very, very, bad ideas. I'm not a fan. I twice had to "rat him out" to the AIRPAC leadership for things that he was trying to do that were outside the scope of the agreement between Malone and Williard when CFWP was subsumed under a flag ( and I went from being Commodore to Chief of Staff). The S.O. used to play golf with his wife-and they are still FB friends so it is an interesting relationship. She corresponds with her-I have nothing whatsoever to do with him. Stork I am assumng this was 2 CO's before me, because I thought that was put to bed when I arrived. Or was it my predecessor?-Giardiana was already gone by that time I arrived-he had made 1 Star.
Did you guys notice that all the good COS's never made flag while all the bastards did? And as for Williard-the less said the better.
As for TRICARE, in fairness, the blame does not lie with Congress. It lies with DOD-with men like Sandy Winnefeld who, while claiming their love for Sailors, are working hard behind the scenes to screw them. There is a lot to criticize Congress about-especially my (and Maurice's) not getting paid come Tuesday, but I think TRICARE is not one of them.
As for Japan, the SO still pays Japanese taxes, even here. But what is you beef? I'll bet the cost of the care you get is still cheaper than what an American hospital will charge and more importanlty the wait to be seen is not so hard. I watched the SO lose her job but still get seen for her back issues. Its not perfect-but its better than the US.
@ Stork: On my level COS Giardina was ok to me. I was just one of those O4's in the "pack" upon which those they had decided to bless would be able to be ranked against. I needed one particular favor from C7F Staff, and when I told him how the previous COS and N3/5/7 had denied my request without due process, he obliged. The other stuff that you mentioned was going on after I had left with the favor that I needed.
@ Skippy: That would be a fair assumption on the fate of a COS at C7F. The first one I had before Byus came onboard was a former CG CO who was forced there after one of the major firings in 7F, I can't remember his name. Another COS that was there was another Black Shoe whose name I can't remember but he was CDS31 out of Hawaii and he was a square deal type of guy and he didn't make Flag either.
As far as Japanese health insurance goes, we have not used it. But I wonder how fair a system (JN taxation) is when a spouse doesn't have any income, yet they are responsible for still paying taxes into it. Luckily (at least for her) she has my income but I am sure that there are others that are not as fortunate, so what are they going to be paying with? The care may be cheaper but you can't get certain things. Case in point, I needed a cornea transplant. USNH couldn't do it and the Opth couldn't send me out in town since they are not done much in Japan. I had to go to a US doctor back in HI to get it done. Tricare picked up some of it, but I still had to pay for some, and the trip to and from Hawaii as well as my lodging. When a stitch came out, there was no Opth assigned to USNH, so I had to get a referral to a local hospital. I was escorted to a JN hosptial at 1000 and didn't get seen until about 1600. After jumping through the basics, when the doctor finally laid me back to pull out the stitch, it just fell out eaisly. Bottom line, they make more of a hassle out of things in a JN hospital than necessary. The spouse has compared notes with giving birth at USNH vice a JN hospital, and the difference is night and day. The spouse preferred the American style hands down.
Skippy,
Yes, the CO I mentioned was 2 prior to your arrival and you know who it is as he eventually took your job in Atsugi, and ultimately got sacked.
I thought he did a good job as COS. He definitely moved the paperwork and that is my definition of good staff officer. I don't believe he generated ANY of it. He just moved it along for an up or down and didn't sit on it like Crecilius used to.
I like the reasonable man theory. I just don't think Skippy understand how it plays. A reasonable man playing hardball and confronted by a majority of angry men elected to oversee the repeal or in-depth moderation of a very stupid and ill-conceived bit of legislation, would accept that some negotiation is the minimum price of reasonable behavior. When the unreasonable man vetoes the will of the majority I don't want to hear morons bleating about how unreasonable the majority is.
I forgot he was at FCG. He never accepted a turnover from me-even though I offered to arrange one, several times. I was quite happy when I heard he had been fired-and when I learned all the reasons he didn't think the job was "worthy of him". All he wanted to do was fly-and in that job its the wrong thing to do. Especially when you are working for P-3 assholes.
Curtis, that "will of the majority" is crap. Americans like what is in the plan once they understand it. The biggest problem is that the Democrats underestimated the level of stupidtiy of the average teabagger (and Alabama citizen)and allowed too many lies to take hold early on. The leigislation should have been more actively promoted-and more than a few teabaggers should have had their nuts cut off.
Bottom line is America needs health care reform-now. Universal care works here in Germany. It can work in the US. Provided Ted Cruz and about 100 other members of Congress die a painful death-soon.
Skippy,
I don't think it is the "tea baggers" and the people of Bama who don't understand. It is the people in NYC who run Aflac and Blue Cross who don't understand the fact that they started to raise their rates on people, all while the President said that those things would not happen and you would be able to keep the insurance that you currently have.
I agree that reform needs to be done in our health care system. First thing I would do, is cut out the free ride to all the illegals that use the ER. I was watching a documentary from the BBC about Chines sex workers in the UK, and how one reporter went undercover in a few 'massage" places wearing hidden camera glasses. One of the ladies complained that she had a rash, and it was growing, but was afraid to go the the doctor since she was in the country illegally and would be sent back to China. So if Britian could do it with their free health care only seeing those who are documented, then why can't the USA?
Also, I don't believe that those very same unions who were behind the passing of ACA, and are now balking at implementing it for their members are too happy or would fit in the two categories that you place those who don't believe in the full merits of the ACA. With this law inplace they loose one of their biggest bargining chips, the power to strike over benefits. Why be in a union and pay dues, if the employee and everyone has to have health care?
Just like the state of NY was in a rush to pass "sweeping gun control measures" in the wake of Sandy Hook and did and realized that they had to go back and amend it since they outlawed high capacity gun mags, making the NYPD violate the very same law while their patrolmen were armed with their pistols, the ACA was rushed througn and not thought out very well.
Maurice, it was always a scam. The insurers raise the prices because they are compelled to insure people with pre-existing conditions that are killers and cost millions of $ in a futile fight to beat death but now they're on the hook for every one of those fights. It's a scam because everybody is compelled to buy into this scheme, young and old and the old will reap all the benefits of reduced costs but wait, isn't that what medicare was for?
Skippy et al get it wrong when they lay all the blame at the feat of the Tea Party but it isn't the tparty that has benefited from every single Obama directed slide to the right on the scam. Employers have a one year extension because the system doesn't work now. Unions had all kinds of exemptions and then they went away and the unions are the loudest complainers about the scam. Congress recently exempted itself from the scam through its friends even though the law was specifically written to force Congress to comply with the law and be a part of its own law making screwup.
I myself don't much care but I dislike seeing facists of the hard left all singing along that the shutdown is the fault of the republicans alone. No it isn't. Congress voted out a bill. The senate hasn't yet voted against it but is expected to vote to shut down the government on Monday and if, by some fluke they pass the bill, the president has vowed to veto it and shut down the government.
I find it interesting that it always comes down to this to force the government to confront or even admit to the problems of its own making. Everybody has known that this is what it was going to come down to for the last year and it's only going to get worse on the debt ceiling debate but the out of control whackos are the ones that own the press and they refuse to behave like adults. I'm OK with shutting down the government. It can stay shut down for the next 3 years for all of me. It's not as if it's doing anything I want it to or pays my salary.
Curtis, its interesting. You depend on the government more than most-yet you would cut off your nose to spite your face. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/09/why-this-is-not-just-washington-breakdown-in-3-graphs-and-1-story/280099/
Also-the "Congress exempted itself" line is an great example of so many of the lies that have been perpertrated in the discussion over the years. Take your own description of the what the Senate will do now. The House has given an unreasonable bill, just as they have repeatedly passed un reasonable bills-at the behest of crazed minority.
I remind you of three facts:
1) Just last year, a presidential election was fought over this exact issue, along with economic policy more broadly. When the votes came in, Barack Obama scored a runaway Electoral College win — and became the first person since Dwight Eisenhower to get more than 51% of the popular vote twice.
2) In that year's elections for the Senate, the Democrats increased their majority by two seats and overall received 10 million+ more votes than all Republican candidates.
3) And last year even in the elections for the House, Democrats — who for better or worse were forced to run on Obamacare and the president's economic policies — gained 8 seats and received 1.7 million more votes than did all Republican candidates combined.
These people are worthless scum.
WRT to your first item Skippy, I don't get it. If you simply reverse the labels and thus call the democrats the absolutists who refuse to negotiate, how do we have a difference of opinion on this topic? It takes 2 parties, minimum, to negotiate and sadly Obama point blank refuses and so does Harry Reid and the senate democrats.
The Congress allowed as how an agency of the executive branch can 'waive' parts of the law that it finds objectionable. I didn't say the worthless scumbags did it all by themselves. They just tripped over themselves agreeing that perhaps, with Obama's blessing, the law need not, after all, apply to them.
WRT your point about the presidential election, I don't remember that fight. Are you sure you have your facts right? With your second point, how does that matter to me? You just went blue in the face denying that the majority of the other Branch of Congress had any moral claim to enact law based on their status as the majority. You have to pick one argument and stick with it, not just change it in midstride. The same exact argument applies to your third point.
I don't have any problem condemning all of them alike but you appear to only find one party at fault and from here, that looks stupid, emitional and peurile.
And no, I don't actually depend on government for ANYTHING. I'm an adult citizen not some dependent or slave of the state.
So you will glady pass on your retirement checks? Your health care coverage? Your current employment? Even if you think Obama is the anti-christ himself, no one should be rooting for a government shutdown-ever. People who do, and think they won't suffer from it-are naive, and ignorant of the interconnected nature of our society.
Second you are missing the point-the law does apply to Congress in that their staffers have to buy on the exchanges. Or did you miss that part of the law? Congress is not exempt from Obamacare. Like everyone else, lawmakers are required to have health insurance. They’re also required to buy insurance through the marketplaces. The idea is to have lawmakers and their staff buy insurance the same way their uninsured constituents would so they understand what their constituents have to deal with. Most Americans who already get insurance through work are left alone under the law; members of Congress have insurance through work but are treated differently in this regard. Recently, a rule was added so that lawmakers’ could keep the traditional employer contribution to their coverage. But they weren’t exempt from requirements that other Americans face. I get so frustrated that these lies get passed around by people who know better.
As for the elections the point is simple. Rmoney lost. Pure and simple. So now its time for Congress to STFU and pass the President's budget. The Senate has been trying for more than six months to get Republicans to approve a conference committee on the budget. The radicals in the House refused. Why? The GOP they themselves had asked for so they could do precisely what they're doing now — use extortion instead of compromise to try to get what they want.
In the case of the shutdown-only one party is at fault. The GOP has no right to hold a temper tantrum like this. We get back to the idea that they have to STFU. GOP lawmakers always intended for this to happen, and set this plan in motion months ago. That is why they need to have their heads slammed against the wall-hard.
Skippy, I'm 52. I don't live paycheck to paycheck and haven't for about 30 years. Thank you, I am very well.
The Obamacare law was sold to the public with the lie that it was the affordable care act and that health care insurance costs would be reduced. In other words, it would be cheaper. I can understand English very well and the law was passed saying that Congress and staff must BUY their health insurance in the market set up by the law. That would save you and me a bit of money since it would obviously not cost us any money at all to have those critters comply with their own law. Your point would be valid except you ignore the words of the actual law. They are getting subsidized healthcare that is not available to everyone else forced to comply with the law–except employers who have been given a one year extension of implementation of the law since the mechanisms to make it feasible simply don't exist.
The last time y'all told Republicans to shut the fuck up you were in the majority. Now the boot is on the other foot. Shut the fuck up and live with the consequences of elections. There was a presidential budget submitted to Congress? Who knew?
You know very well why there are difficulties with accepting a conference committee on this matter and just about any other matter of substance. Nobody trusts the Senate, Reid and the President to be honorable and observe the niceties of Congress. They fully expect that if the conference committee meets, shits like McCain and Snow will sell them out in a heartbeat. They also think this is true of the Speaker and Majority Leader. Course, they rallied and got 100% of the Senate republicans to vote for the budget while all the democrats and socialists voted against it. They even got 2 House democrats to vote for the budget which is more votes than Pelosi got from Republicans when she jammed Obamacare through with a strict majority vote.
I see ONE party that voted out a budget all fair and square and I see the OTHER party has voted against a budget for purely partisan reasons.
I don't mind tussling over the facts but I don't see any reason to concede that only one party is shit for doing no more than the other party is doing.
I'll leave off commenting for now on your latest post but I will observe that you finally GET IT. The government IS OUT OF MONEY and so the things you speculate will happen when the Fed stops spending money it does not have and never will have, hold no fears for me. That's GOING TO HAPPEN.
Wow, you are younger than me. And here I thought I could blame your rants on being old and senile. Turns out you are just young and horribly misinformed. Its sad for you-even more so because you are representative of a certain segment of America. And you contention that you would not suffer from a shutdown is sheer lunancy. The world is much more interconnected than that-or do you want your savings wiped out in a recession? I hate people who talk like that. Its irresponsible.
When you say the GOP is the Majority-you seem to take it that only the House matters. A majority in the Senate and the White House matters not? Demographics changing away from the GOP is not real? Or that more Ameicans voted for the President than voted for Rmoney?
I tire of hearing that only the House passed a budget. It was the only the Ryan budget-a plan that is not a plan, but a statement of cruelty. The fact that you do not know a budget has been submitted every year by the President I can only ascribe to laziness or inability to properly get your news. If the majority in the Senate and the country voted against the Ryan budget it was because they believe-as I do-that its wrong to cut taxes on the wealthy, while screwing over great numbers of people who need help. Its wrong and worse, his numbers don't add up. Adopting this budget would destroy what is left of the safety net and, like austerity programs across the world have done, throw the country back into recession. It will make the deficit worse-not that you really care about that. You just want another cudgel.
Another thing I tire of is the trope-that the government is out of money, its not. The money is out there in the economy to have a balanced budget. It is just that assholes who have not lived paycheck to paycheck for the last 30 years are not taxed at proper rate-while those of us who are forced to live paycheck to paycheck due Americans fucked up family law pay a higher effective rate than say-most CEO's. Jamie Dimon made 23 million last year when he should have been getting gang raped in prison.
As for the both sides do it mentality-as James Fallows points out its a sham. Moreover, have the Democrats have never in recent history been as crazy as the GOP. It should be self-evident to even the most mildly learning disabled Alabaman that the other party has gone completely out of its mind? It's not enough to decry the ongoing vandalism. The nihilism behind it has to be brought out and hammered home, day after day, election after election. Letting the crazy people work their crazy will while the rest of us suffer is just wrong. We are going to need a bigger guiolltine when the time comes-and I nominate Ted Cruz to the first to ride the bascule.
100% of the Senate voted against the last Presidential budget I can remember. Does that constitute shouted down by the majority?
As you well know, the House of Representatives is much more reflective of the public's will since the office is stuffed with people very highly attuned to their constituents unlike the Senate.
Here there is a majority. There there is a majority. You simply cannot grasp that one majority is voting out a budget, however horrible you find it, while the other majority is jamming its fingers in its ears, screaming NO, stomping its feet and threatening to hold its breath until it turns blue. I think I'll stick with the majority that behave like grown up adults.
Curtis I reject it, because it is not an accurate representation of the events that occurred. The current House of Representatives is filled with assholes-many first and second termers-who are egged on by the selfish pigs who inhabit the tea party, acting for their own enrichment, at the expense of the better interests of the United States.
Especially the people who agree with you. As I said, we will probably need a bigger guillotine.